What is Consciousness Really?

Professor Jonathan Schooler joins Dr Tevin Naidu the Mind-Body Solution Podcast for a deep exploration of consciousness, mind wandering, and the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) model. In this conversation, Schooler—founder of Meta Lab (Memory, Emotion, Thought & Awareness) at UCSB—explains why introspection can distort experience, how mind wandering reveals hidden layers of awareness, and why consciousness may be structured as a hierarchy of nested experiential windows.

We explore:
Why self-reports both matter and mislead
Meta-awareness and the illusion of continuous attention
Panpsychism, idealism, and materialism
Synchronization and coherence in conscious systems
The three dimensions of time (objective, subjective, alternative)
Free will, creativity, and openness to experience
Consciousness beyond the brain—and possibly beyond death

This episode bridges psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and physics, offering one of the clearest articulations of Schooler’s most ambitious ideas to date.

TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 — Why Consciousness Is Paradoxical
04:24 — Why Introspection Distorts Experience (Verbal Overshadowing)
08:26 — How Scientists Measure Mind Wandering
11:25 — Do We Directly Access Experience or Construct It Later?
14:29 — Near-Death Experiences, Memory, and Illusion
17:43 — Evolutionary Advantages of Mind Wandering
20:35 — Inside Meta Lab: Memory, Emotion, Thought & Awareness
22:52 — Materialism vs Idealism vs Panpsychism
27:04 — Introducing the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) Model
30:49 — Consciousness as a Mosaic of Nested Windows
33:35 — Synchronization, Coherence & Cross-Frequency Coupling
41:50 — Why Information Is Lost as Awareness Scales Up
45:04 — Three Dimensions of Time Explained
50:51 — Why Science Struggles With Experience, Time & Free Will
55:09 — Subjective Time, Frame Rates & Flow of Consciousness
59:15 — Alternative Time & the Possibility of Free Will
1:05:46 — Measuring Subjective Time in the Brain
1:10:18 — Many Worlds Theory Reimagined Through Consciousness
1:18:48 — Creativity, Mind Wandering & Openness to Experience
2:01:09 — Consciousness, Openness & Humanity’s Future

EPISODE LINKS:
- Jonathan's Website: https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jonathan/members/schooler
- Jonathan's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=3UEI9NIAAAAJ&hl=en
- Jonathan's Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Schooler
- Jonathan's X: https://twitter.com/JonathanSchool6

CONNECT:
- Website: https://mindbodysolution.org
- YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MindBodySolution
- Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodysolution
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/drtevinnaidu
- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drtevinnaidu
- Instagram: https://instagram.com/drtevinnaidu
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- Website: https://tevinnaidu.com

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