Can phenomenology, the study of lived experience, be rigorously formalized in mathematics without losing its essence?

In this episode of Mind-Body Solution, I speak with Professor Robert Prentner, a philosopher and interdisciplinary scientist exploring the intersections of consciousness, AI, phenomenology, and mathematics. Prentner develops the Interface Consciousness Lab, where concepts from category theory, topology, and networks are used to model experience, while also testing these ideas through AI systems and artificial phenomenology. His work bridges philosophy and computation, reimagining how agents construct reality.

We explore:
- The interface theory of perception & the hard problem of consciousness
- Can qualia be structured mathematically, as topological spaces?
- Artificial phenomenology and how AI might instantiate or simulate experience
- SLP tests as benchmarks for subjective structure in machines
- The role of process metaphysics & relational ontology
- Ethics and freedom in a world of alien phenomenologies
- Why consciousness science needs both mathematical rigor and philosophical depth

👉 Watch until the end for Robert’s reflections on global perspectives and advice to young researchers entering the field of consciousness studies.

TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction: Robert Prentner on interfaces, phenomenology & consciousness
01:00 - From Hoffman to Prentner: extending the Interface Theory of Perception
03:14 - Why neuroscience alone can’t solve the mind-body problem
05:42 - Physicalism fails: why consciousness must be taken as fundamental
08:15 - What is an "interface"? Rethinking perception and reality
11:29 - Can phenomenology be mathematized? Category theory & topology explained
14:28 - Guarding against reductionism: mathematics without oversimplification
17:02 - Phenomenal spaces: the geometry and structure of qualia
20:44 - Interfaces as relational: self, world, and embodiment
23:12 - Artificial phenomenology: can machines host new forms of experience?
25:05 - Beyond behaviorism: why the Turing Test is not enough
27:10 - SLP tests: Subjective, Linguistic & Phenomenological benchmarks for AI
29:54 - Ethics of alien consciousness: what if machines develop their own phenomenologies?
32:44 - Freedom, agency, and interfaces: rethinking responsibility
36:20 - Category theory and process philosophy: toward a new metaphysics
39:42 - Computational humanities: simulating historical subjectivities
42:55 - Consciousness beyond neuroscience: integrating humanities and AI
47:15 - Big gaps in consciousness science: what remains unsolved
52:40 - Future directions: mathematized phenomenology and integrative science
59:29 - Advice for young researchers: interdisciplinary challenges & closing reflections

EPISODE LINKS:
- Robert's Website: https://robertprentner.github.io/
- Robert's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=ZYcFVxoAAAAJ
- Robert's X: https://x.com/Robert_Prentner
- Robert's Work Site: https://ih.shanghaitech.edu.cn/ih_en/2024/1204/c10937a1104318/page.htm
- Robert's PhilPeople Profile: https://philpeople.org/profiles/robert-prentner
- Donald Hoffman Podcast 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Hz1giUUT8
- Donald Hoffman Podcast 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toq9YLl49KM
- Donald Hoffman Podcast 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRa8r5xOaAA
- Donald Hoffman Lecture 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_UFm8GbSvU
- Donald Hoffman Lecture 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBmzqNIlbcI
- Chris Fields Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2C3ZNzijE
- Keith Frankish Podcast 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxDYG0K360E
- Keith Frankish Podcast 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTO-A1lw4JM
- Keith Frankish Lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbjGRcqD96Q

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