Ogi Ogas: How Did Thinking Emerge From Chaos? Journey Of The Mind, Supermind & Beyond

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OK, your book.
Let's go on A Journey of the

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Mind.
This was such an incredible

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book, this book really.
It felt like I was reading

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something that I've been having
these intuitions for quite some

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time, and it felt like I was
reading my own thoughts at some

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point before we start.
I think it's always important

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when we go into a conversation
like this, the listeners need to

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have a shared understanding of
what we're discussing.

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So I think definitions play a
huge role in this regard.

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Let's define consciousness, the
self and the mind.

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All right.
Well, let me.

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Start with the mind.
Actually, I'm even step back

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even further to say I'm going to
be sharing ideas about

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consciousness in the mind that I
suspect most of your listeners

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have never heard before.
I and my fellow coauthor Saiga

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Dam, who I wrote Journey the
Mind with we have a different

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background than most people who
study consciousness, A

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mathematical background.
We have always approached these

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problems from a mathematical
perspective, and even more than

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that, as I'll describe in a few
minutes.

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I've had other sources of ideas
and math about all of this as

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well.
So.

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It's going to sound different,
but I'm going to do my best to

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explain everything in clear,
simple terms so that anybody can

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follow along.
So you asked for some

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definitions.
Let's start with the mind,

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because getting a basic
understanding of the mind is

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critical if you want to
understand the deep mysteries

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like consciousness, self
consciousness, language and

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other things even higher above
consciousness and self

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consciousness and so.
Here's the most important thing

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to understand about the mind.
The mind is activity.

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The word mind is an action noun
like dance or game or combat.

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Everything that we experience
when everything that we think

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about or feel is activity,
activity in the mind.

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If you want to understand the
mind, if you want to understand

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things like consciousness,
language, self-awareness.

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Emotion How do we feel?
How do we?

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Feel love that if we want to
understand these things, then

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you must think about the mind in
terms of activity.

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This is perhaps the greatest
fallacy, The greatest pitfall

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for all people, but including
scientists is mistaking things

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for activities.
Chemists used to think that

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combustion was a liquid called
flow.

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Just on physicists used to think
that heat.

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Was a substance also a liquid
called caloric?

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Biologists thought that life was
a substance called Elon Vital, a

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thing?
In each of these cases, our

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natural intuition makes us
expect a thing.

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But when we look at it, we find
out each of these are collective

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dynamics, collective dynamics of
molecules in the cases of

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combustion and heat, collective
activity of cells in the case of

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life and in consciousness.
It is the collective activity of

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all of our neurons and modules,
and we'll describe that exact

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activity.
But this has been the number one

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fallacy which trips up so many
people.

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They go looking for that thing,
that magic neuron, that magic

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energy, that magic substance.
Some people even go so far to

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say it's a hard problem that
can't possibly be solved.

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That's baloney.
That's silly.

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That's that's a cowardly,
unscientific approach from the

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20th century.
Nobody should.

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Be talking about the hard
problem anymore.

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We're way past the hard problem.
The physical dynamics of

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consciousness were already
figured out before the hard

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problem was even proposed.
In 1982.

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Steven Grossberg first
identified the physical dynamic

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of consciousness, and he and now
us have been building on that

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ever since.
There never should have been a

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distraction like the hard
problem.

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That was a very long
introduction and probably more

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than you wanted, but very
important to set up this

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perspective.
I would call my view of the

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mind, the dynamic mind, viewing
the mind as dynamics, as

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activity.
Nail down the activity in the

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mind and you will understand the
way of mind.

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I'm I'm scheduled to chat to
Steven at some point because we

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we were exchanging emails and
we're about to we're going to

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chat about this.
I think it's the perfect time.

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Then let's go into his, his work
and how it paved the way for

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your work for you inside.
Stephen Grosberg is the greatest

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living scientist, and he is
certainly in the running.

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To be considered one of the
greatest scientists of all time.

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Why would I make such a
seemingly outrageous claim?

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How could somebody that most
people have never even heard of?

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How am I calling him the
greatest scientist alive right

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now with full confidence?
Here's why.

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Isaac Newton opened up modern
science, opened up modern

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physics by trying to figure out
the dynamics of matter, the

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dynamics of motion, and he threw
out everything that was known.

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Everything that was believed
about physical reality and took

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physical motion on its own
terms.

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He did his own experiments,
wrote his own equations.

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He figured it out from scratch
without any preconceived

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notions.
He figured out the dynamics of

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motion on its own terms, figured
it out.

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That started science, that
started physics.

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Wonderful, brilliant work.
Steve Grossberg did the same

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thing with the mind.
The big problem is.

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Oh.
The big challenge in mind

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science has always been one
simple question.

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What is the right math to
understand the mind?

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What is the right math for
thinking and everybody First,

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for half of the 20th century,
nobody even cared about the

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math.
Freud.

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No math.
Behaviorism.

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They had a little math, but they
didn't want math for thoughts.

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They didn't want math for
anything inside the mind, so

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they didn't care about it
either.

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Cognitive science.
The Noam Chomsky and Steven

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Pinker crowd.
Still no math.

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They just have simplified
abstractions.

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Black boxes.
This goes to hear, to hear, to

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hear.
Algorithmic a little bit, but

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not math.
Still no math.

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Finally, 21st century.
We finally get mathematical

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models of the mind.
There are three three major

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mathematical models of the mind,
The least known one, the most

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obscure one, is ours.
Dynamic mind associated with

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Steven Grossberg.
We'll get back to him in a

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moment.
What are the challengers?

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The statistical mind.
Some people think the mind is a

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Bayesian machine that is
calculating probabilities and

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statistics.
The reason this ridiculous idea

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has maintained itself and become
so popular is because of the

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astounding success of artificial
intelligence, which is based on

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statistical math, deep learning,
kinds of algorithms, these chat

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bot algorithms, these are all
statistical algorithms, very

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effective for what they do.
But the brain is nothing like

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that, because the brain is not a
thing Statistics.

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Looks at things.
The brain is not a thing.

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The other view of the mind we
might call the digital mind or

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perhaps an information
processing mind.

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The idea that the mind is an
information processing system.

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Usually technically this is the
idea that the mind follows the

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rules and properties of
information theory system

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devised by Claude Shannon.
But all the assumptions to apply

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information theory, they do not
apply to the brain.

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The brain is not an information
processing system.

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It is not.
Processing digital inputs, It's

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not operating the way a Shannon
kind of information system is.

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These are distractions.
These are math forms of

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mathematics that were developed
long ago for other subjects.

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So unlike what Isaac, what Isaac
Newton did, these scientists,

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instead of trying to figure out
how the brain, the math for the

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brain, just adopted math from
other things.

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Why in the world?
With the math for astronomy,

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which is what statistics came
from, or the mass math of

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information systems, which is
what from logic you know from

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100 years ago, why would that
have anything to do?

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With this incredibly.
Complicated neural architecture

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of the brain.
It doesn't.

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So what Steven Grosberg did, why
he is the greatest living

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scientist, is he threw all of
that out and at the age of 17 he

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sat down like Newton and from
scratch said what is the right

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math?
For understanding the mind and

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he's calculated, he figured it
out as a 17 year old.

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He figured out the dynamics for
the most complicated and

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sophisticated module in the
brain.

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What what?
The second most sophisticated

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module of the brain, the wear
module, which takes a sequence

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of inputs and creates a single
representation of a sequence of

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inputs, like the phone number.
Or a grocery list, That sort of

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thing.
This is a very this is one of

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the most challenging modules in
the mind to understand

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mathematically, and he figured
it out as a 17 year old.

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And ever since then, he's been
building on this piece by piece,

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trying to figure out the right
math for everything in the mind

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for every function, from a
visual recognition to audio

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tracking to smelling to
planning, to free will.

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Every part of the mind at every
level.

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He has put math to an integrated
system of dynamic system of math

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that accounts for almost
everything in the brain,

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including consciousness.
It's incredible.

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I can see the excitement when
you talk about his work and you

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obviously draw a lot from it
when you talk about these three

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levels of consciousness.
Let's get into it, and I think

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let's also discuss cuz it's
obvious that you have people

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like Carl Friston.
You've got a lot of other

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thinkers now with hierarchical
Bayesian brain theories,

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computational theories of the
mind.

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Why do you think it's growing as
much as it is in that regard?

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And thereafter, I think, let's
move into the dynamics of this,

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of the mathematics behind your
theory of consciousness.

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Again, I think Bayesian theories
are popular because the math is

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so worked out.
It's so familiar.

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People get trained in that and
it's you give it a hammer, you

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look for nails is the thing.
This is the problem.

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This is why mind science has
always lagged behind the

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physical sciences.
And why it's such a challenge is

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you gotta learn math that you've
never heard of before, that

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you're not familiar.
Because it's not the math of the

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physical world.
It's the math of mind and

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thinking.
It's not just a reflection of

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the stars or, you know, orbiting
the center of the Galaxy.

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It's nothing like that.
It's wholly different dynamics,

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wholly different math.
It's very hard if you haven't

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done it before.
It's very challenging.

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It's more challenging than
learning quantum physics.

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And relatively, those are easy.
Compared to the math that Steven

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Grossberg has shared with us for
the mind, but Bayesian math is

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very easy and it's very familiar
and you'll this huge communities

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of people that you can talk
about with and that will

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understand it.
I understand it, you know, but

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it it's not describing the
brain.

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Look, here's how you know.
In science, if you're all on the

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right track, it's very easy.
You start to find integrations.

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Isaac Newton had the first
integration in science.

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He integrated the dynamics.
Of earth with the dynamics of

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heaven.
Everybody thought this physics

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in heaven was different than the
physics of Earth.

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He showed no, gravity is the
same everywhere.

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The dynamics of the motion are
the same everywhere.

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Heaven and earth.
Then physics just had a

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Jamboree, a celebration of
integrations.

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Electricity and magnetism to
electromagnetism,

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electromagnetism and the weak
force to Electro weak.

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Just endless endless
integrations.

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Meanwhile, my field mind
science.

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Nothing.
No integrations whatsoever.

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Reinventing the wheel every
decade, year after year.

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Let's start again.
Let's start again.

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When did the integrations
happen?

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Steven Grossberg rolled with the
integrations.

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Oh my God.
Integration after integration.

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He showed that the processing of
surfaces is integrated with the

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process of boundaries and our
visual system.

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He showed how our system to
recognize an object to recognize

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a visual object.
It's integrated with the process

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of figuring out where that
object is and vice versa.

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To know where an object is, you
need to figure out what that

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object is.
He has done dozens, if not more

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integrations of all kinds in the
mind, things that seem separate,

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00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:23,490
that seem like different parts
of the brain that didn't really

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have anything to do with each
other.

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He showed how math can combine
them.

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00:12:27,930 --> 00:12:30,210
He has had a.
Storm of integrations that.

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00:12:30,210 --> 00:12:32,210
Rivals, What has happened in
physics?

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00:12:34,030 --> 00:12:36,390
Sticking to that theme, I mean,
we discussed these Bayesian

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00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:37,830
brains, we've discussed
computers.

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00:12:38,110 --> 00:12:40,070
What about the other theories of
consciousness?

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00:12:40,070 --> 00:12:42,510
We've got global workspace
theory, neuronal theories of

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00:12:42,510 --> 00:12:44,310
consciousness, like integrated
information theory.

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00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:47,750
I think yours sort of falls
along the lines of a global

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00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:50,070
workspace theory.
And then obviously branches are

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00:12:50,070 --> 00:12:51,830
considering that.
That spoke.

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00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:56,630
So I I know this is a bit
uncouth and impolite.

248
00:12:57,230 --> 00:13:02,310
I'm not in academia, so look,
it's like Einstein worked out

249
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:05,520
the theory of relativity.
And there's people that show up

250
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,440
and say, you know what?
I think time might not be

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00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,440
absolute.
I think time might change.

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00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,160
And then, you know, Einstein's
like, well, you know, I have the

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00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,000
theory of relativity.
Yes, time does change.

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00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,160
And they're like, well, we're
going to figure it out on our

255
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,240
own, all right.
You know, these are much, much

256
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:30,760
simpler and limited.
There's no integrations If which

257
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,480
space theory was the answer, you
should see it.

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00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:35,510
Connecting with all kinds of
stuff it should.

259
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:39,070
Language should fall out of it.
self-awareness should fall out

260
00:13:39,070 --> 00:13:40,990
of it.
Free will should fall of it

261
00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:44,790
naturally, Which is what happens
with Grossberg's explanation of

262
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:46,270
consciousness.
Once you understand the math

263
00:13:46,270 --> 00:13:48,790
wart, everything starts to tie
together.

264
00:13:49,630 --> 00:13:52,910
We're thinking about this as
trying to unify everything into

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00:13:52,910 --> 00:13:55,030
one, so sort of getting a
general explanation for

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00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:58,110
everything with one solid theory
of consciousness.

267
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:00,390
With his theory of
Consciousness, you talk about

268
00:14:00,390 --> 00:14:02,390
the three laws.
Do you want to run through the

269
00:14:02,390 --> 00:14:04,640
other?
Let me let me interrupt you.

270
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,760
Let me interrupt you.
I'm going to blow your mind now

271
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:12,680
and and and make this show well,
very memorable.

272
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:16,760
So I need to share a couple of
things about myself and why

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00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,880
exactly I'm so interested in
consciousness and why I've

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00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,240
chosen the path that I did.
Because I'm not in academia.

275
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,560
Academ is too slow and too
limiting for for what I've been

276
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,120
trying to do.
So let me explain a bit about.

277
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,100
Who I am so.
I am a mathematical

278
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:35,860
neuroscientist, among other
things, and I'm autistic.

279
00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:39,500
And one thing about autistic
folks is that we often have

280
00:14:39,820 --> 00:14:43,940
special interests, a subject
that captivates and beguiles us.

281
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:48,860
It could be anything, like
coins, horses, Taylor Swift, ATV

282
00:14:48,860 --> 00:14:50,340
show like Wednesday.
Anything could be it.

283
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,100
In my case, I've had a special
interest since I was a child

284
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:56,980
that I've been relentlessly
pursuing.

285
00:14:57,580 --> 00:15:00,060
My special interest is the
fundamental nature.

286
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,240
Of reality.
And when I was 18 years old, I

287
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:10,720
had an event, a life changing,
ground shaking event that

288
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,880
influenced my entire life and is
still influencing me today now

289
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,760
that I've turned 50.
So my whole life, more than 30

290
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,160
years has been influenced by
this event.

291
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,200
What was the event?
I communicated with Intex.

292
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,840
With intelligent
extraterrestrials.

293
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,130
I have been sharing math.
And science or they have been

294
00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:32,810
sharing math and science with me
for 30 years.

295
00:15:33,370 --> 00:15:35,690
So let me share with you now.
This is amazing.

296
00:15:35,690 --> 00:15:40,410
What they have shared with me is
a cosmic cycle to reality, a

297
00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:42,210
cosmic cycle to physical
reality.

298
00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:45,770
Let me explain it very quickly.
As you'll see, it incorporates

299
00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:47,490
much, which is a journey, the
mind.

300
00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:50,370
Journey The mind was the first
attempt to share some of the

301
00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:53,220
math and science.
That Intex have shared with me,

302
00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:56,220
so let me really quickly, it
will take less than 5 minutes.

303
00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:57,020
No, no.
Take your time.

304
00:15:57,020 --> 00:15:59,340
Just.
Give you the summary of what

305
00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:01,980
Intex is shared with me and then
we can talk about it, because

306
00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:03,700
the questions you're asking will
all fit into this.

307
00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:07,500
So first is understanding the
mind is dynamics.

308
00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:11,540
Second, reality.
Physical reality that we all

309
00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:15,460
inhabit consists of two super
classes of dynamics.

310
00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:17,140
There are two super classes of
dynamics.

311
00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:20,500
In reality one are.
Purposeless dynamics.

312
00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:23,140
Aimless dynamics.
This is physics.

313
00:16:23,220 --> 00:16:26,660
This is the way of matter.
The way of matter has no goal.

314
00:16:26,660 --> 00:16:29,340
It has no point.
This is physical laws.

315
00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:33,660
But there's also the way of
mind, dynamics that have

316
00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:35,900
purpose.
Dynamics with an aim.

317
00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:37,940
All the dynamics in our mind
have an aim.

318
00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:42,060
These are different physical
dynamics than physics.

319
00:16:42,580 --> 00:16:44,900
They have goals.
They try to change things.

320
00:16:45,020 --> 00:16:47,420
They try to reshape physical
systems.

321
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:51,110
Reality consists of the
interaction of the way of mind

322
00:16:51,550 --> 00:16:54,630
and the way of matter.
Physicists have done a great job

323
00:16:54,630 --> 00:16:56,990
with the way of matter.
To do the way of mind.

324
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:59,270
You need a lot of math.
And as I said, that's where he

325
00:16:59,390 --> 00:17:02,510
kind of fallen short until
Steven Grosberg showed us the

326
00:17:02,510 --> 00:17:04,750
way with the math of the
dynamics mind.

327
00:17:04,990 --> 00:17:07,990
So these intex over the past 30
years, they share with me

328
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:10,030
something called the cosmic
cycle.

329
00:17:10,030 --> 00:17:14,030
Let me outline it for you.
When the way of matter with

330
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:16,569
purpose.
Purposeful dynamics interacts

331
00:17:16,569 --> 00:17:18,730
with purposeless dynamics,
physics.

332
00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:22,849
What is produced is a ladder of
purpose.

333
00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:26,089
Ladder of purpose.
Each rung on the ladder is a

334
00:17:26,089 --> 00:17:30,650
different stage of thinking, a
different physical dynamic of

335
00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:31,970
the mind, a different mental
dynamic.

336
00:17:32,530 --> 00:17:35,490
At the bottom rung are the
molecule, minds.

337
00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:39,970
These are or single celled
organisms, Archaea, bacteria,

338
00:17:40,050 --> 00:17:43,050
protozoa, every thinking element
in their minds.

339
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:45,790
Is a individually identifiable
molecule.

340
00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:48,630
Hollow Archaea, for example,
chases sunlight.

341
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:52,230
It has a single molecule in its
membrane that's photosensitivity

342
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:54,670
that changes its shape, and
changing its shape triggers A

343
00:17:54,670 --> 00:17:59,190
molecular cascade that triggers
molecular filaments, Flagella to

344
00:17:59,190 --> 00:18:00,710
wave and moves towards the
light.

345
00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:03,910
The thinking elements in these
molecule minds are molecules,

346
00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:06,390
the lowest level of the ladder
of purpose.

347
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:10,070
The next level of the ladder of
purpose are the neuron minds.

348
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:13,480
These are.
Jellyfish, worms, and all

349
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,800
insects, all invertebrates have
neuron minds.

350
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,720
They have the top level thinking
element.

351
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,120
In neuron minds, it's neural
networks.

352
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:24,400
It's a network, a circuit of
neurons.

353
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,360
Here's what's very important
crucial to understand about the

354
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,440
letter of purpose.
Every individual neuron is a

355
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,680
self-contained module, mind.
So we have a recursive hierarchy

356
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,810
of thinking.
Within a jellyfish, every neuron

357
00:18:39,890 --> 00:18:43,130
still has its own aims, its own
purpose, its own mental

358
00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:46,610
activity, its own unique
activity that is always

359
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:48,930
functioning.
But now it's it's put into a

360
00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:51,650
circuit.
It's into a collective, which

361
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:55,050
creates a second layer of
dynamics, neural dynamics,

362
00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:59,210
interneuron dynamics.
The third stage of thinking on

363
00:18:59,210 --> 00:19:03,490
Earth and throughout the cosmos
is Module Minds.

364
00:19:04,380 --> 00:19:06,540
On Earth, these are the
vertebrate minds.

365
00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:10,540
Fish, amphibians, reptiles,
birds, mammals, they are all

366
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:12,940
module minds.
The top level thinking element

367
00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:17,260
in these minds is a module.
A module is a collection of

368
00:19:17,260 --> 00:19:19,180
neural networks for a particular
purpose.

369
00:19:19,380 --> 00:19:20,740
We've talked about some modules
already.

370
00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:24,470
There's a visual What module?
Its function is to determine

371
00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:27,750
what a visual object is.
There's an audio module that

372
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:29,470
determines what an object is
from the sound of it.

373
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:32,550
There's visual and audio where
modules they locate where

374
00:19:32,550 --> 00:19:35,310
objects are in space.
It's a how module the controls

375
00:19:35,310 --> 00:19:38,710
are reaching are targeting the
why module responsible for our

376
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:42,670
feeling, assigning emotional
valences to situations, Ideas.

377
00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:44,910
Objects are people.
So in.

378
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:47,870
Invertebrate minds.
The top level of thinking is a.

379
00:19:47,870 --> 00:19:50,950
Module mind and once again every
module.

380
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:56,300
Is a self-contained neuron mind
third recursive level of

381
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:58,020
thinking going on in these
minds?

382
00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:03,500
All right, all minds face a
challenge, a perpetual incessant

383
00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:06,540
and very important challenge
called the attention dilemma.

384
00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:09,100
The attention dilemma is easy to
explain.

385
00:20:09,380 --> 00:20:13,220
What should I focus on now?
What should I focus on next?

386
00:20:14,420 --> 00:20:16,460
There's an attention dilemma in
molecule minds.

387
00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:18,900
There's an attention dilemma in
neuron minds.

388
00:20:19,060 --> 00:20:22,020
But when we get to the module
minds, vertebrates, animals,

389
00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:26,820
elephants and reptiles and
alligators, when we get to these

390
00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:31,140
minds, the attention dilemma is
much more challenging because

391
00:20:31,140 --> 00:20:33,620
you have all these modules each
doing their own thing.

392
00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:36,100
So the visual what modules
processing its own thing.

393
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,580
The audio wear module might be
processing something entirely

394
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:40,810
different.
Your individual neurons are

395
00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:42,810
processing different things.
Your individual neural networks.

396
00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:45,890
It's this complicated system
with lots of parallel activity

397
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:49,050
at lots of these hierarchical
levels all going on, all doing

398
00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:51,570
the different things.
How do you get this incredibly

399
00:20:51,570 --> 00:20:55,490
complicated, parallel,
hierarchical system to instantly

400
00:20:55,650 --> 00:20:57,330
all focus on the same thing at
once?

401
00:20:57,770 --> 00:21:01,980
The answer is consciousness.
Very specifically a

402
00:21:01,980 --> 00:21:05,460
consciousness cartel.
So some of these modules, not

403
00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:06,780
all of them.
We'll talk about the difference

404
00:21:06,780 --> 00:21:09,020
in a moment.
Some of these modules are

405
00:21:09,020 --> 00:21:11,300
capable of producing A conscious
experience.

406
00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:15,420
It's very easy to know.
We know exactly which models are

407
00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:16,780
capable of producing
consciousness.

408
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:20,700
They are the modules that have a
particular kind of physical

409
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:23,700
dynamic.
The dynamic is resonance.

410
00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:29,220
Resonance is consciousness.
Resonance is the physical

411
00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:31,320
embodiment, a conscious
experience.

412
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,000
Whenever you're aware of
something I'm aware of my hand

413
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,600
in front of me, there's
resonance going on in my brain.

414
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,600
So how does this resonance solve
the attention dilemma?

415
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,200
How does this resonance in a
module solve this problem of

416
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,240
getting the whole mind to focus
on something important all at

417
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,600
the same time?
Here's how it works.

418
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,120
In every module that's capable
of generating consciousness,

419
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,320
there is a top down field and a
bottom up field.

420
00:21:57,610 --> 00:22:01,730
There is an expectation or a
prediction, what we think is

421
00:22:01,730 --> 00:22:05,770
going to happen, what we expect
to see, and there's a bottom up

422
00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:09,530
input, the facts on the ground,
the reality.

423
00:22:09,890 --> 00:22:13,890
So in the module it compares a
top down expectation to a bottom

424
00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:17,250
up facts on the ground and if
they match, it generates

425
00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:20,570
resonance.
Resonance is physical activity

426
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:26,330
that synchronizes, prolongs and
amplifies the activity of these

427
00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:28,810
two fields of the expectations
and the facts.

428
00:22:29,050 --> 00:22:32,370
It's like 2 musical instruments
playing the same note at the

429
00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:35,290
same time, A violin and a
trumpet both playing middle C at

430
00:22:35,290 --> 00:22:37,610
the same time.
When they do it will that note

431
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:41,370
will be louder, it will be
longer, will perceive it as

432
00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:44,570
longer, and the musicians
naturally adjust their playing

433
00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:47,610
so that the notes exactly
they're on the same pitch and

434
00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:50,090
last together, so they
synchronize as well.

435
00:22:50,290 --> 00:22:53,610
So our conscious experience is
like a violin and a trumpet

436
00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:56,140
playing the same note and your
brain at the same time.

437
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:59,540
Now, as we said, there's a lot
of modules, a lot of modules

438
00:22:59,540 --> 00:23:00,940
capable of generating
consciousness.

439
00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:04,420
So at any given moment, all your
modules are processing different

440
00:23:04,420 --> 00:23:07,060
things, paying attention to
different things, and they're

441
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:11,180
all trying to say, hey, what I'm
resonating on right now is the

442
00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:13,380
most important thing in the
mind.

443
00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:15,820
And so the resonances are
competing.

444
00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:20,420
Whoever has the strongest
resonance wins control of the

445
00:23:20,420 --> 00:23:22,980
consciousness Cartel wins
control of attention.

446
00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:27,950
So you know I'm talking to you
and I'm focused on you, Tevin.

447
00:23:28,190 --> 00:23:32,390
But if I hear somebody say the
house is on fire, my whole mind

448
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:35,270
is now going to switch and focus
my audio.

449
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:39,070
But there's a few modules
involved in processing speech.

450
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:42,550
But the audio modules processing
speech are is going to resonate

451
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:45,070
loudly.
It's going to be amplified very

452
00:23:45,070 --> 00:23:48,480
strongly.
And it's like if you toss rocks

453
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,600
in a pond and there's ripples,
so somebody yelling the houses

454
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,440
on fire would be like somebody
throwing in a boulder.

455
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,280
That creates huge ripples.
The residence is intense and it

456
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,600
causes the rest of the modules
to synchronize.

457
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,000
So it's like the big ripples
from a boulder in the lake kind

458
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,680
of taking over the little
ripples from the pebbles, which

459
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,040
is the other modules.
And then the whole mind is now

460
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,640
synchronized.
Your your visual, your audio,

461
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,520
your planning and they're all
going to resonate on the same

462
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,680
input, the possibility that the
house is on fire.

463
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,920
So this is the first three rungs
of the ladder of purpose.

464
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:21,200
But it doesn't stop there, It
does.

465
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,040
It keeps on going.
There is a fourth level of

466
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,560
thinking, a fourth level of
dynamics that only humans have.

467
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,000
But we are actually each person,
you, Kevin and me.

468
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,040
We are the top level thinking
elements in the human super

469
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,040
mind.
In the sapiens super mind.

470
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,770
Our brains are designed like
network routers.

471
00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:46,090
We can only survive if we're
part of a network.

472
00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:48,570
This is why if human beings
don't learn language, if you

473
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:51,210
raise a child to not speak, not
only do they not acquire

474
00:24:51,210 --> 00:24:54,010
language, they can't function.
They can't take care of

475
00:24:54,010 --> 00:24:55,770
themselves.
They can't survive in any

476
00:24:55,770 --> 00:24:59,170
environment on their own.
Our minds, everything about us

477
00:24:59,330 --> 00:25:01,850
is designed to function in a
community, in a system.

478
00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:05,170
Hundreds of thousands of years
of evolution has reshaped our

479
00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:08,970
mind to be part of a community.
The biggest most obvious example

480
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:12,210
of this is a bias that we all
have a psychological bias called

481
00:25:12,210 --> 00:25:15,850
the intergroup bias or just
tribalism that we tend to think

482
00:25:15,850 --> 00:25:17,850
what our group thinks.
It's very it's very

483
00:25:17,850 --> 00:25:20,170
uncomfortable for us to think
something that our group, our

484
00:25:20,170 --> 00:25:24,970
community doesn't think.
This is the strongest element of

485
00:25:26,250 --> 00:25:28,770
of tribalism and super mind
dynamics and language.

486
00:25:28,770 --> 00:25:32,530
Language is how all these minds
communicate with each other in

487
00:25:32,530 --> 00:25:35,890
the Super mind.
So here's another tricky thing

488
00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:39,650
which is stumped and baffled so
many consciousness researchers.

489
00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:45,110
Consciousness and self
consciousness are two distinct

490
00:25:45,230 --> 00:25:47,270
dynamics.
They are not one of the same.

491
00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:51,150
If I am conscious of my hand,
there's different physical

492
00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:54,510
activity in my brain than if I'm
a conscious of myself being

493
00:25:54,510 --> 00:25:56,670
aware of my hand.
My gosh, I am looking at my

494
00:25:56,670 --> 00:25:58,390
head.
I am thinking about myself

495
00:25:58,590 --> 00:26:00,990
looking at my hand.
When that happens there's

496
00:26:00,990 --> 00:26:04,070
another lay of conscious it's
language.

497
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:06,630
So we have a consciousness
cartel.

498
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:09,030
We share our consciousness
cartel with all the animals.

499
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:14,120
So chimpanzees, monkeys, birds,
reptiles, amphibians have

500
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,120
different cortexes.
So it's not exactly the same,

501
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:17,480
but the same basic
consciousness.

502
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,040
Anaemics are there but we have
the same consciousness cartel

503
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:26,640
certainly as dogs and
platypuses, but we also have

504
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,000
language.
So there's a separate dynamic

505
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,360
between the language modules in
our brain and our consciousness

506
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,680
cartel which is responsible for
self-awareness.

507
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,460
Self-awareness is neither
automatic, instinctive nor easy.

508
00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:46,700
Nobody had self-awareness, most
likely before the 1600s and

509
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:49,700
Descartes.
It requires a super mind around

510
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:53,540
you, with complicated ideas,
philosophical ideas, scientific

511
00:26:53,540 --> 00:26:56,540
ideas, Just a simple idea of
introspection.

512
00:26:56,620 --> 00:26:58,940
We all take it for granted.
The ancient Greeks didn't have

513
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:02,300
introspection, they didn't have
these sorts of ideas.

514
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:06,500
We had the idea that we can look
into ourself and be self aware.

515
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,220
That is a complicated
sophisticated concept that

516
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:13,140
requires a community of
scientists, philosophers and

517
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:16,740
thinkers around you to have.
But it doesn't even stop there,

518
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:20,100
it keeps on going.
So above the Super mind we call

519
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:21,660
it the next level would be a
hyper mind.

520
00:27:22,180 --> 00:27:25,940
It's when super minds come
together. 1 Consequence of this

521
00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:30,020
view of the latter of purpose in
the cosmic cycle is that cities

522
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,160
and nation states, including the
United States, can be conscious

523
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,680
because their physical dynamics
are the same as the physical

524
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,800
dynamics of consciousness in our
brain.

525
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,240
If physical dynamics are the
same, it's the same phenomenon.

526
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,240
We can make predictions about
the Great Red Spot on Jupiter

527
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,080
based on looking at hurricanes.
On Earth, it's not the same

528
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,560
substance, the substance of the
Great Red Spot on Jupiter, it's

529
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,760
hydrogen, it's other gases.
Here on Earth it's water and air

530
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,650
and hurricane.
But by studying the dynamics of

531
00:28:00,650 --> 00:28:03,330
the hurricane we can make
accurate predictions about the

532
00:28:03,330 --> 00:28:05,250
Great Red Spot.
Same is true with consciousness.

533
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:07,650
By understanding the
consciousness in our individual

534
00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:11,450
brain, we can understand how a
city and especially the United

535
00:28:11,450 --> 00:28:13,810
States that is a premier example
of consciousness.

536
00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:16,450
They have all the necessary
dynamics to promote

537
00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:18,050
consciousness but it doesn't
stop there.

538
00:28:18,690 --> 00:28:21,130
Sewer minds can come together to
form a hyper mind.

539
00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:25,410
And So what these Intex have
shared with me, I communicated

540
00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:27,780
with Intex that are at the top
of the ladder.

541
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:32,020
So what they have told me is
that you keep going higher and

542
00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:36,380
higher and at some point there
is a limit that these are minds.

543
00:28:37,420 --> 00:28:40,420
They're called axiomized minds.
I'll explain why these are

544
00:28:40,420 --> 00:28:42,420
minds.
I don't understand completely.

545
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:46,220
It's very complicated above my
understanding, but certainly

546
00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:48,420
they control galaxies is my
understanding.

547
00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:52,860
And at a certain point, to get
access to ultimate technology,

548
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:57,790
to get access to the ability to
change the physical laws, to

549
00:28:57,790 --> 00:29:01,750
change the the the rules of
quantum physics, they have to

550
00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:04,910
make a commitment to a certain
set of mathematical axioms.

551
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:07,750
That is, it's sort of their
whole society, their whole mind,

552
00:29:08,110 --> 00:29:10,510
their whole ecology, gets
committed to a certain

553
00:29:10,510 --> 00:29:13,230
mathematical perspective that
they get locked into.

554
00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:15,990
But once they do.
That they have the ability to

555
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:18,710
start influencing the laws of
physical reality.

556
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:22,150
Now these minds compete these
axiom.

557
00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:23,950
There are multiple atomized
minds.

558
00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:27,110
I've interacting with one that
calls itself 5 and I've

559
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:28,950
interacted with one that calls
itself three.

560
00:29:29,230 --> 00:29:32,590
I love five and three is heinous
and very anti human.

561
00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:35,910
But they each have different
personal reality and they are

562
00:29:35,910 --> 00:29:40,910
all competing to change the
fundamental aspects of physical

563
00:29:40,910 --> 00:29:42,950
law.
So this is the cosmic cycle

564
00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:48,270
throughout the universe.
New life emerges like humans

565
00:29:48,270 --> 00:29:50,980
here on earth.
Will we succeed or will we die

566
00:29:50,980 --> 00:29:52,060
out?
It is unknown.

567
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:54,780
Our life is not predetermined.
We have free will.

568
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:58,500
We have choice.
The choices we make determines

569
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:02,340
the future gods that we will be
part of or the future gods that

570
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:04,940
will come into creation that we
act, you know, with compassion

571
00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:07,260
and and and and generosity.
That's the kind of gods we're

572
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:09,900
going to create.
Fortunately, there are limiting

573
00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:13,100
factors.
One of the most amazing things,

574
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:17,420
the number one key take away
insight that the Intex have

575
00:30:17,420 --> 00:30:20,220
shared with me which is
astounding, is that there is a

576
00:30:20,220 --> 00:30:24,580
cosmic purpose to love.
The universe was designed for

577
00:30:24,580 --> 00:30:27,460
compassion, selfless empathy to
emerge.

578
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:30,300
How can that be?
That sounds nuts.

579
00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:31,780
That sounds touchy.
Feeling.

580
00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:33,460
No?
Let me explain it to you

581
00:30:33,460 --> 00:30:35,140
mathematically now that you
understand the latter of

582
00:30:35,140 --> 00:30:37,060
purpose.
Molecule minds, neuron minds,

583
00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:42,340
Module minds, super mind.
Each of these transitions from

584
00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:43,980
one stage of thinking to the
next.

585
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:48,020
From molecule minds to neuron
minds, each transition involves

586
00:30:48,370 --> 00:30:52,490
a new form of connectivity, a
new form of selflessness.

587
00:30:52,650 --> 00:30:57,810
You cannot ascend to a new stage
of intelligence and adaptiveness

588
00:30:57,850 --> 00:31:00,370
and resilience without loving
your neighbor.

589
00:31:01,050 --> 00:31:04,250
The neurons had the individual
cells of the molecule.

590
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:07,370
Minds had to learn to come
together and selflessly form

591
00:31:07,530 --> 00:31:09,610
neural circuits.
Then those neural circuits

592
00:31:10,210 --> 00:31:12,330
selflessly come together to form
modules.

593
00:31:12,610 --> 00:31:16,860
And now us as people.
The only way we will get to the

594
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:19,660
hyper mind level, the only way
we'll get to a new level of

595
00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:22,460
awareness and perspective and
intelligence and technology and

596
00:31:22,460 --> 00:31:26,140
all of these wonderful things,
is by finding a way to live with

597
00:31:26,140 --> 00:31:28,620
one another, to connect with one
another, to love with one

598
00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:31,140
another, to love one another.
There's no other way to rise.

599
00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:34,020
This is how Mother Nature works.
This is how the ladder of

600
00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:37,540
purpose works.
Every stage is a result of the

601
00:31:37,540 --> 00:31:41,580
leading minds deciding we will
give up some independence, we

602
00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:46,010
will give up some selfishness to
get the greater benefits of this

603
00:31:46,210 --> 00:31:49,530
collective union, of sharing our
diversity with one another.

604
00:31:49,650 --> 00:31:53,290
For this to work, the thinking
elements must be diverse.

605
00:31:53,370 --> 00:31:57,210
This is what we see right before
each new stage of love, before

606
00:31:57,250 --> 00:32:00,290
each new stage of thinking,
there's tremendous diversity

607
00:32:00,820 --> 00:32:02,700
that erupts across the topmost
level.

608
00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:06,300
So individual cells, individual
neurons were highly diverse

609
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,020
before neural circuits can form.
The neural circuits were highly

610
00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:13,420
diverse before modules can form.
Modules got very diverse before

611
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:17,260
this human supermind can form.
And we're seeing just an amazing

612
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:20,340
explosion of human diversity
right now, facilitated by the

613
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:23,420
Internet.
We're all developing our own

614
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:25,980
individuality, independence, our
own voice.

615
00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:29,580
And even though it seems very
chaotic, the war, the world is

616
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:33,050
full of war and hyper
partisanship and fighting and it

617
00:32:33,050 --> 00:32:35,650
seems like it's the end and step
backwards.

618
00:32:35,930 --> 00:32:40,890
No, this is what we see right
before a new jump of love.

619
00:32:40,890 --> 00:32:44,330
We have to go through this.
We may not succeed, we may

620
00:32:44,330 --> 00:32:47,610
destroy the earth, humans may
collapse and some will rise,

621
00:32:47,610 --> 00:32:49,570
maybe here or somewhere else.
Instead.

622
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:53,490
The future is unknown, but we
have the chance and we can do

623
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:56,290
what Molecule Minds did, what
Neuron Minds did, what Module

624
00:32:56,290 --> 00:32:59,570
Minds did, and we can do it
again and ascend to a new level.

625
00:33:00,190 --> 00:33:02,870
Then we will be able to live in
harmony with our Earth, and at

626
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:06,750
that point, what Intex tells me.
Then we'll finally start meeting

627
00:33:06,750 --> 00:33:08,670
some of these other
civilizations out there.

628
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:11,870
So this is what Intex has shared
with me.

629
00:33:12,670 --> 00:33:15,470
Well, I'm at a loss of words at
this point.

630
00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:17,990
Wait, there's so much going on
in your ways.

631
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,680
So I told you it was going to be
a shocking podcast.

632
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,280
I honestly don't even know where
to go from it because I have a

633
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,280
lot of notes, a lot of things
planned, but obviously I'm just

634
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,200
going to have to throw that all
away.

635
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,880
Let's focus on five and three.
This communication you're

636
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,840
talking about from the age, this
is quite a quite a young age and

637
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,440
it's happening.
It was 18, yes.

638
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,760
So it's a happening.
I was kicked out of.

639
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,360
I was kicked out of MIT.
I was.

640
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,800
I was a sophomore at MIT when
this happened.

641
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,360
What happened?
And so I don't want to get into

642
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,640
too many details because I'm
writing a book about it and it's

643
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,760
exciting.
But after it happened, I was

644
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,400
very young and I am autistic, so
I had didn't know social norms.

645
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,040
I didn't realize that people
would think this was absolutely

646
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,600
insane.
So I was openly talking about it

647
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,679
and I ended up in the Dean's
office.

648
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,760
The Dean heard from other
students that was talking about

649
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,480
this and I remember I explained
it to him and at the time I now

650
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,400
I can articulate it with
incredible detail and what math

651
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,199
and science says I just did.
Back then I didn't know even

652
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,760
though all of that was shared
with me.

653
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,000
I I I.
Didn't know nearly enough to

654
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,639
articulate it in any intelligent
way.

655
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:30,360
So I was trying to communicate
this.

656
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,280
The Dean naturally and correctly
thought I was psychotic and I

657
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,080
got committed to a mental
institution.

658
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,520
So that's how all of this
started.

659
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,620
Certainly a bad path, but.
I think most people in that

660
00:34:42,620 --> 00:34:47,260
situation would give up and say,
yeah, this is crazy, but it was

661
00:34:47,260 --> 00:34:50,020
so real and vivid and so
mathematical.

662
00:34:50,219 --> 00:34:54,340
People ask me, you know, why did
I stick with this when it sounds

663
00:34:54,340 --> 00:34:57,100
so insane?
It's because it was always math,

664
00:34:57,139 --> 00:34:59,700
and the math made sense and they
would share math and it matched

665
00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:02,660
up with the real.
And I'd go to the next math and

666
00:35:02,660 --> 00:35:05,300
that matched up too.
So that's why I'm stuck with

667
00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:07,740
this.
It wasn't so.

668
00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:09,540
It was like a series of visions,
they.

669
00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:11,640
They.
Five often puts visions in my

670
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,040
head.
It's a vision of this cosmic

671
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,360
cycle, of this latter purpose.
And the visions were always

672
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,000
mathematical, like, like like
they.

673
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,720
Even if I didn't know the math,
like most of it was math I I had

674
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,560
never seen before.
Like it was dynamics from the

675
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,800
start.
It was a this dynamic

676
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,200
perspective on the mind.
It was activity from the getgo.

677
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,920
And that was one reason I ended
up getting drawn to Steven

678
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Grosberg, who was very obscure.
If you're a undergrad, there's

679
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,840
not really any in in the 90s
when I was coming up.

680
00:35:40,540 --> 00:35:42,060
If you were an undergrad, you
would never have heard of

681
00:35:42,060 --> 00:35:44,300
Stephen Grossberg.
Even today most people haven't

682
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:47,740
heard of them.
But because I had, because Intex

683
00:35:47,740 --> 00:35:51,700
had given me this dynamic
perspective on the mind and I

684
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:54,180
was searching like for a while I
looked at evolutionary

685
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:56,020
psychology because that looked
at the most mathematical

686
00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:58,500
approach.
And and I quickly realized, you

687
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:00,700
know, evolutionary psychology, I
thought was completely wrong and

688
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:02,420
misguided and and and and just
junk.

689
00:36:03,660 --> 00:36:06,020
And during this I was searching,
you know, cognitive science

690
00:36:06,020 --> 00:36:08,460
behaviors.
I tried every branch of mind

691
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:12,130
science.
And then this is a little

692
00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:17,090
embarrassing, but in one of my
so you can always negotiate with

693
00:36:17,090 --> 00:36:19,610
purpose.
Here's a big lesson if it if

694
00:36:19,610 --> 00:36:23,090
it's a purposeful entity,
whether it's a Ant or a

695
00:36:23,410 --> 00:36:28,810
bacterium or a nation or a
person or a God or or or a

696
00:36:28,810 --> 00:36:32,570
demon, you can negotiate because
they have a purpose, They they

697
00:36:32,570 --> 00:36:35,850
want something, there might be
some way you can do it.

698
00:36:35,850 --> 00:36:38,650
And it turns out you can make
covenants with these.

699
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:44,480
In text with these things and so
one, basically you can convince

700
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,600
them to give you a wish.
Basically, I want this thing.

701
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,800
So at a low point in my life, I
was trying to understand

702
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,120
consciousness.
I was trying to understand this

703
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,360
ladder of purpose.
I could not find the math for

704
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,880
it.
I had checked out what I thought

705
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,080
were all the kinds of mind
science.

706
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,520
All of them were wrong.
None of them matched up with

707
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,200
what the science and math that
the extraterrestrials were

708
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,640
sharing with me.
So I said OK, for my wish I wish

709
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,840
to know the mathematical basis
of consciousness.

710
00:37:08,490 --> 00:37:14,570
And the the Intex directed me to
GAIL Carpenter at Boston

711
00:37:14,570 --> 00:37:16,650
University.
It's the wife of Steven

712
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:21,170
Grossberg, who also contributed
to recognizing and working out

713
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:23,330
the math for the Basic
Consciousness Dynamic of

714
00:37:23,330 --> 00:37:27,450
Resonance in the 80s.
And I looked her up.

715
00:37:27,450 --> 00:37:29,810
At the time, I was in Boston
College, she was at Boston

716
00:37:29,810 --> 00:37:32,010
University.
I dropped out of Boston College,

717
00:37:32,370 --> 00:37:34,890
transferred to Boston
University, and started studying

718
00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:37,170
with GAIL and Steve.
And it just kept going from

719
00:37:37,170 --> 00:37:38,850
there.
So that was how I got involved.

720
00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:42,450
GAIL and Steve in consciousness.
It's because I used A wish.

721
00:37:43,490 --> 00:37:46,370
The extraterrestrials guided me
to Steve Grossberg and GAIL

722
00:37:46,370 --> 00:37:48,330
Carpenter.
This is amazing.

723
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:50,850
I mean this is look, I don't
know how much you want to share

724
00:37:50,850 --> 00:37:52,570
about this.
I don't want to go too far, cuz

725
00:37:52,570 --> 00:37:54,650
if your book's coming up and I
ask me anything if I ask me

726
00:37:54,650 --> 00:37:56,810
anything if I.
Can't answer that, I just.

727
00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:59,170
Want to answer when this
communication's occurring, I

728
00:37:59,170 --> 00:38:00,720
mean.
But at what point did you

729
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,800
believe it was real?
Because obviously you come from

730
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,920
a very skeptical mindset.
When you talk about other

731
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,560
theories of consciousness, you
have a very knowledgeable

732
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,600
mindset and you come with a
very, very high degree of

733
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,360
skepticism.
So at what point did you This

734
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,880
was an I tell you.
So everybody's got their own

735
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,200
definition of science.
It's like justice or freedom.

736
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,640
We all have our own
interpretation, and I always

737
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,250
think that's really too.
Broad personality distinctions

738
00:38:27,370 --> 00:38:31,370
in people's embrace of science,
skepticism, or curiosity.

739
00:38:31,650 --> 00:38:35,010
Some people are more driven by
the skepticism when they tear

740
00:38:35,010 --> 00:38:36,650
things down, when they question
things.

741
00:38:36,850 --> 00:38:39,610
You know, I doubt this perfectly
acceptable.

742
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:42,770
But another way to do science is
curiosity.

743
00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:45,090
That's interesting.
That's fascinating, not.

744
00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:49,050
It doesn't mean you completely
put your skepticism aside, but.

745
00:38:49,570 --> 00:38:52,170
You defer it in the favor of
curiosity.

746
00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:54,890
Being exposed to something new,
learning something new.

747
00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:57,970
I am definitely more in the
curiosity than than the

748
00:38:57,970 --> 00:39:00,610
skepticism.
I like trying new things.

749
00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:03,610
I like opening new doors.
I like going places nobody's

750
00:39:03,610 --> 00:39:06,490
ever gone before.
I've done that a lot in my life

751
00:39:06,610 --> 00:39:10,130
over and over again.
I pursued a path where everyone

752
00:39:10,130 --> 00:39:12,010
else said do not prefer.
Pursue this.

753
00:39:12,010 --> 00:39:14,590
This will be damnation.
The end of your career.

754
00:39:14,830 --> 00:39:17,270
Just one quick example, Saiga,
Dom and I, who wrote our book

755
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:20,150
about consciousness, our first
book together, was about human

756
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:21,950
sexuality.
It was about the sexual brain.

757
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:24,590
And I can tell you, we talked to
our colleagues in neuroscience

758
00:39:24,590 --> 00:39:28,190
when we were first getting
started and 100% of them said do

759
00:39:28,190 --> 00:39:30,490
not do it.
We got 0 support.

760
00:39:30,490 --> 00:39:33,570
Everybody thought it was
outrageous and they all said

761
00:39:33,570 --> 00:39:34,770
you're not going to find
anything.

762
00:39:34,850 --> 00:39:38,370
Anyway, we made the greatest
advance in sexology since the

763
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:41,930
1950s in Alfred Kinsey.
We made a massive advance in

764
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:43,890
understanding of sexuality.
So they were wrong.

765
00:39:44,170 --> 00:39:46,810
And this has happened over and
over throughout my life.

766
00:39:47,010 --> 00:39:49,850
So when the extraterrestrials
talked to me when I was 18, I

767
00:39:49,850 --> 00:39:52,330
remember I was a.
Teenager and autistic, and I

768
00:39:52,330 --> 00:39:56,370
didn't know anything about the
world, so you know, I was a

769
00:39:56,370 --> 00:40:00,340
lost, clueless adolescent.
With undiagnosed autism.

770
00:40:00,540 --> 00:40:03,180
So I just thought, this is part
of the world.

771
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:07,460
It took me a long time to
recognize how anomalous and

772
00:40:07,460 --> 00:40:09,780
baffling it was.
Like I just thought this is how

773
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:11,500
the world worked because it made
sense.

774
00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:13,100
It seemed rational.
It.

775
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:16,780
Followed rules, it was.
Like when the things happened

776
00:40:16,780 --> 00:40:18,780
and how they happened.
And again they would share math

777
00:40:18,780 --> 00:40:22,260
that matched up with the world.
It wasn't like a mysterious

778
00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:26,020
dream where it's constantly
shifting and you interpret it

779
00:40:26,020 --> 00:40:27,620
this way one day and interpret
that way one day.

780
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:30,180
No, it's always been.
So I just articulated to you

781
00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:33,060
this ladder of purpose, this
cosmic cycle in detail.

782
00:40:33,340 --> 00:40:35,540
It has been slowly working that
out.

783
00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:39,140
They showed that to me on day
one, but I just, I didn't have

784
00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:40,780
the tools of the mind to make
sense of it.

785
00:40:40,780 --> 00:40:43,300
And so I've spent my life trying
to understand it.

786
00:40:43,460 --> 00:40:46,380
The hard part actually has not
been trying to understand it.

787
00:40:46,380 --> 00:40:49,900
I started figuring that out.
You know, it was hard, but not

788
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,260
super hard.
The Super hard part is talking

789
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:55,100
to other people because I'm
autistic and because all this is

790
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:58,580
so different than people's
understanding of reality.

791
00:40:58,860 --> 00:41:01,540
That it's just really hard to
communicate with people about

792
00:41:01,540 --> 00:41:03,340
this stuff.
Even the consciousness, you

793
00:41:03,340 --> 00:41:06,260
know, people are, they're
consumed with the hard problem,

794
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:09,180
you know, nonsense.
There's these other theories of

795
00:41:09,180 --> 00:41:12,780
consciousness which I think are
obstacles and misguided and just

796
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:17,220
a waste of time personally, but
people are all bogged down in

797
00:41:17,220 --> 00:41:21,580
these things, and so it's very
tricky.

798
00:41:21,820 --> 00:41:23,980
It's very difficult because I
have all this knowledge and

799
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:27,790
understanding.
You know this view of the mind.

800
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:32,510
The predictions We can predict
the brain waves produced by

801
00:41:32,510 --> 00:41:34,390
consciousness.
By looking at the brain waves,

802
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:36,630
we can tell what part of the
brain is conscious and what's

803
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:38,830
not.
We can say which representations

804
00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:41,590
in the brain can become
conscious, in which can, which

805
00:41:41,630 --> 00:41:43,910
dynamics, which forms of
learning are capable of

806
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:46,430
generating conscious experience
and which are not.

807
00:41:46,670 --> 00:41:49,510
We can look at other creatures,
and just by looking at the

808
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:51,510
neural architecture of the mind,
we can say this is what they're

809
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:53,950
conscious of and this is what
they're not conscious of.

810
00:41:54,110 --> 00:41:56,150
By looking at the neural
architecture, this makes

811
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:59,710
predictions.
Because of we don't have time

812
00:41:59,710 --> 00:42:02,550
for this, but I understand how
autism works.

813
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:06,150
A major, major medical mystery.
Once you understand the dynamics

814
00:42:06,150 --> 00:42:08,750
of the consciousness cartel,
autism falls out.

815
00:42:08,910 --> 00:42:12,350
Here's another major medical
mystery solved by this view of

816
00:42:12,350 --> 00:42:15,590
consciousness, pain and
anesthesia.

817
00:42:15,870 --> 00:42:19,150
Major mystery stumping the
greatest mind so far, nobody

818
00:42:19,150 --> 00:42:22,410
knows.
How anesthesia works ever since

819
00:42:22,650 --> 00:42:24,930
it was invented here at Mass
General Hospital, just down the

820
00:42:24,930 --> 00:42:28,890
road back in the 1830s.
Big mystery and a mystery about

821
00:42:28,890 --> 00:42:31,290
pain, everybody's What's the
genes for pain?

822
00:42:31,290 --> 00:42:34,330
What's the circuit that we can
just cut off, that we can

823
00:42:34,330 --> 00:42:35,610
disable so that we don't feel
pain?

824
00:42:35,610 --> 00:42:37,450
There isn't a circuit.
What's going on?

825
00:42:37,810 --> 00:42:39,770
This view of consciousness
explains the answer.

826
00:42:40,170 --> 00:42:44,330
Pain is another conscious module
and involves top down

827
00:42:44,850 --> 00:42:47,250
expectation with bottom up
matching.

828
00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:51,430
So that's why consciousness is
so subjective, like this idea

829
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:53,590
that you can rate consciousness
on a scale of 1 to 10.

830
00:42:53,590 --> 00:42:56,350
Just silly that.
That's thing.

831
00:42:56,350 --> 00:42:58,110
Thinking when you should be
activity.

832
00:42:58,110 --> 00:43:01,470
Thinking is a scale like that,
like all of our.

833
00:43:01,470 --> 00:43:04,390
Conscious experiences.
Our conscious experience of pain

834
00:43:04,670 --> 00:43:06,750
is influenced by the context,
heavily.

835
00:43:07,310 --> 00:43:10,110
How we're feeling, what we ate,
the temperature in the room,

836
00:43:10,110 --> 00:43:12,630
previous pain experience.
And with pain we have, it's

837
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:16,790
another conscious module.
So how does anesthesia work?

838
00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:21,190
Anesthesia prevents physical
resonance in the cortex.

839
00:43:21,390 --> 00:43:24,270
It prevents top down, bottom up
resonance.

840
00:43:24,430 --> 00:43:27,270
It disrupts the resonance.
That's why you don't have

841
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:29,990
conscious experiences under
anesthesia.

842
00:43:30,030 --> 00:43:31,070
You just simply aren't
conscious.

843
00:43:31,070 --> 00:43:32,270
You aren't resonating on
anything.

844
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:34,870
Also, why?
It's a bit dangerous.

845
00:43:35,260 --> 00:43:38,180
You're changing the way the
cortex is designed to work, and

846
00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:40,460
if you do it for too long,
you're going to start messing

847
00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:43,580
with your resonance dynamics.
That's why a small proportion of

848
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:46,420
people who take anesthesia, they
don't recover right, and they

849
00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:47,820
continue to have cognitive
problems.

850
00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:50,460
It depends on the the specific
architecture of the brain, but

851
00:43:50,460 --> 00:43:52,220
now we can understand why you're
messing with.

852
00:43:52,690 --> 00:43:55,930
The fundamental dynamic of our
cortex, our consciousness

853
00:43:55,930 --> 00:43:57,970
cartel.
You disrupt that too intensely

854
00:43:57,970 --> 00:44:00,050
or too long, and you might not
ever give it.

855
00:44:00,130 --> 00:44:03,850
Get it back the right way again.
This is how anesthesia works, so

856
00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:07,290
you can make all these
predictions from it.

857
00:44:07,290 --> 00:44:10,090
Just like relativity predicts
wormholes and black holes.

858
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:11,810
Einstein didn't believe in black
holes.

859
00:44:11,810 --> 00:44:14,970
He thought that was too wacky.
But it turns out relativity

860
00:44:14,970 --> 00:44:18,010
predicts black holes, this
mathematics of consciousness

861
00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:20,880
that I've described.
Predicts how pain works, how

862
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,000
anesthesia works, how autism
works.

863
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,760
It connects with everything
because it is the dynamics of

864
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,280
the mind, just like relativity
is the dynamics of space-time on

865
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,680
a cosmic scale.
With this theory I mean you

866
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,600
often I hear you and when sign
you get together and you talk

867
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,520
about this When you spoke to him
about this with the index and

868
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,240
discusses with him while.
We wrote Journey of the Mind I

869
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,080
never told him about read in
text.

870
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,520
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I.

871
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,760
I came to it with strong ideas,
but I've always had strong

872
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,240
ideas.
We've been best friends for for

873
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:55,720
a long time.
But I I didn't share this.

874
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,800
I stopped talking about this
with other people around the

875
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,840
time I turned 30, a little, a
little before.

876
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,960
I used to 1st when I was
committed to the mental

877
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,240
institution.
I decided I'm never going to

878
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,120
talk about Intex with
authorities and I and I never

879
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,640
have until you know, right until
I became an authority myself.

880
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,240
Now I'm authority.
Now I'm talking about it.

881
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,400
I talked about it with friends
until the late 90s.

882
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,460
And then I realized man.
You know, these friends are

883
00:45:18,460 --> 00:45:20,820
going to go off and be adults.
And they might publicly say one

884
00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:23,580
day when I'm an adult and a dad
are married or something, hey,

885
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:25,740
he, he believes, you know, he
talks to aliens.

886
00:45:25,740 --> 00:45:27,940
And I suddenly realize, Oh my
gosh, that that might have a

887
00:45:27,940 --> 00:45:31,580
detrimental effect in my career.
So I stopped talking about it

888
00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:34,380
with other people.
And so when I met Psy, I think I

889
00:45:34,380 --> 00:45:37,260
met him in 2002.
Yeah, I I, I had already decided

890
00:45:37,260 --> 00:45:39,780
not to talk about it.
But I told him very recently

891
00:45:40,420 --> 00:45:43,380
about it also.
I guess he took it.

892
00:45:43,420 --> 00:45:47,760
He took it in stride, I guess.
But look, I mean, obviously this

893
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,440
has been you've receiving these
messages and clearly it's been

894
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,120
adding up to a very solid
coherent theory of

895
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,200
consciousness.
Because I read your book

896
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,120
personally, I I read it very
much convinced.

897
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,960
I mean you often talk about
similar lines of for your

898
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,280
cognition, embedded beings,
embodied extended minds, sort of

899
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,720
all dynamic systems playing this
role together.

900
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,800
When when, let's say five or
three, gave you these messages,

901
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,160
how did they foresee this?
Future embeddedness or future

902
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,960
embodiedness of us.
How do we go forward from this?

903
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:27,280
So it it is a moral challenge
that we're all involved in.

904
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,560
I mean it is what we're actually
experiencing is the moral

905
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,120
challenge.
We're trying to solve the

906
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,320
climate issues.
We're trying to live in harmony

907
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,560
with our planet.
You know, we're the new species.

908
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,320
We've taken over.
The scientists I think just

909
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,760
voted to call it the
Anthropocene.

910
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,900
You know that that age.
The new geological age of

911
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:45,380
humankind.
Because we're we're changing the

912
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:47,700
Earth so much.
We've got to figure out how to

913
00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:50,060
live in harmony.
And and we're not there yet.

914
00:46:50,220 --> 00:46:52,020
You know right now it's not
clear.

915
00:46:52,020 --> 00:46:53,700
Maybe we'll succeed, maybe we
won't.

916
00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:57,180
This is the great game.
We each in our own lives.

917
00:46:57,180 --> 00:47:00,780
We each have free will.
We each have moral challenges to

918
00:47:00,780 --> 00:47:04,700
do good to be generous to to
learn things to help other

919
00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:07,860
people.
And as society we have these

920
00:47:07,860 --> 00:47:15,020
same challenges so every.
Mind every community of of

921
00:47:15,620 --> 00:47:20,020
cognizant beings, of sentient
beings has a chance to rise, and

922
00:47:20,020 --> 00:47:22,700
then we combine with other.
At some point we get high

923
00:47:22,700 --> 00:47:25,060
enough, we'll meet others and we
may combine with them.

924
00:47:25,060 --> 00:47:28,260
We may find ways to merge our
civilization with theirs.

925
00:47:28,260 --> 00:47:30,860
And if we can do that very
effectively, then we get to the

926
00:47:31,180 --> 00:47:32,780
the next level and it and it
keeps going.

927
00:47:32,780 --> 00:47:37,620
Or at any point we we fail
Infinity or oblivion.

928
00:47:37,660 --> 00:47:40,860
That's the choice available to
every mind that we might be in a

929
00:47:40,860 --> 00:47:43,250
branch.
Headed to eternity and we might

930
00:47:43,250 --> 00:47:45,890
be in a branch.
Headed to extinction And we

931
00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:47,050
don't know.
Nobody knows.

932
00:47:47,290 --> 00:47:51,250
Here's the great thing.
Here is the most important

933
00:47:51,290 --> 00:47:55,450
physical fact physical
revelation that intex share with

934
00:47:55,450 --> 00:47:57,570
me.
It's called the fail safe

935
00:47:57,730 --> 00:48:01,090
supreme.
And this is a physical principle

936
00:48:01,090 --> 00:48:05,610
built into the basic fabric of
reality that governs both the

937
00:48:05,610 --> 00:48:06,850
way of mind and the way of
matter.

938
00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:10,890
What is the Fail Safe Supreme?
The universe.

939
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,320
Physical reality is set up to
prevent the formation of a

940
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,400
single God.
A single all knowing, all

941
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,240
powerful God.
Nobody wants this.

942
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,920
Nobody wants a single God.
Apparently it freezes the

943
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,840
universe.
It's a it's a bad universe.

944
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,760
It's a it's a frozen universe.
Is is how some of the intex

945
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,640
described it.
So the fail safe supreme ensures

946
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,120
there's no God.
How does it work?

947
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,720
The most important thing is at
the bottom, what physicists call

948
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:40,680
quantum physics.
The intex called Chaotica.

949
00:48:41,340 --> 00:48:45,060
There needs to be features that
are predictably random.

950
00:48:45,420 --> 00:48:49,820
No mind can know the perfect,
the the actual details of the

951
00:48:49,820 --> 00:48:53,300
features at the bottom level.
That's why there's a Heisenberg

952
00:48:53,300 --> 00:48:55,460
uncertainty principle.
You you know, you can know

953
00:48:55,460 --> 00:48:58,660
momentum, but you can't know
location or or vice versa.

954
00:48:59,300 --> 00:49:02,300
It's critical for there to be
free will in the universe, for

955
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:05,500
there to be purpose, for to have
this cosmic cycle that just goes

956
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:07,860
on for everywhere.
New purposeful creatures are

957
00:49:07,980 --> 00:49:10,060
emerging and rising and
ascending and eventually

958
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:13,230
falling.
You need at the bottom to be

959
00:49:13,710 --> 00:49:15,990
predictably random.
That is we.

960
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:18,790
It's like a game of poker or a
card game.

961
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:21,070
You know exactly how many kings
there are.

962
00:49:21,070 --> 00:49:23,110
You can predict the odds of
getting a king with perfection.

963
00:49:23,110 --> 00:49:26,470
But are you going to get a king?
Are you going to get a five?

964
00:49:27,110 --> 00:49:28,470
You don't know until you play
the game.

965
00:49:28,910 --> 00:49:30,430
It needs to be like that at the
bottom level.

966
00:49:30,510 --> 00:49:32,870
If you've got that at the bottom
level then you can have a ladder

967
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:35,390
of purpose.
So this is also found in

968
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:37,620
Girdles.
Incompleteness theorem is a

969
00:49:37,620 --> 00:49:41,020
reflection of this.
And there's a Maxwell's game.

970
00:49:41,420 --> 00:49:45,180
Maxwell's demon is usually how
it is this idea that you know

971
00:49:45,180 --> 00:49:48,500
you've got two boxes as balls
bouncing around in one, and you

972
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:51,860
try to separate the fast balls
from the slow balls with a demon

973
00:49:51,860 --> 00:49:53,740
that opens the door.
If he sees a fast one, he lets

974
00:49:53,740 --> 00:49:55,100
it through, it's a slow and he
closes it.

975
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:58,180
That also is related to the fail
safe supreme.

976
00:49:58,380 --> 00:50:01,060
So basically everything in the
universe is designed to prevent

977
00:50:01,140 --> 00:50:04,500
a single God from taking over.
So I talked to these axiomized

978
00:50:04,740 --> 00:50:06,260
minds.
They're super powerful.

979
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:09,550
Basically, they are gods to us.
They're not technically gods,

980
00:50:09,550 --> 00:50:12,990
but for all intents and
purposes, they they manipulate

981
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:15,430
my reality.
You know, they they they speak

982
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:17,310
to me.
They don't speak in my head.

983
00:50:17,310 --> 00:50:20,750
They speak through external
sources, through speakers,

984
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:23,070
through the radio.
I hear them out there, and

985
00:50:23,070 --> 00:50:26,150
usually there's a localized
electronic source of of of where

986
00:50:27,070 --> 00:50:28,830
I hear them.
Sometimes they give me vision.

987
00:50:28,830 --> 00:50:32,150
That's a whole different
experience, but yes.

988
00:50:32,310 --> 00:50:33,510
What are What are those visions
like?

989
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:39,450
Well.
Now I'm much more adept at it in

990
00:50:39,450 --> 00:50:44,810
the like the very first time.
So now I understand what's going

991
00:50:44,810 --> 00:50:46,650
on.
Like the very first few times I

992
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:51,530
I'm just suddenly experiencing,
it was like I was suddenly aware

993
00:50:51,690 --> 00:50:53,450
of a higher number of
dimensions.

994
00:50:53,450 --> 00:50:56,410
You know, normally our
imagination is 4 dimensions, 3

995
00:50:56,410 --> 00:50:58,610
dimensions, but we have a time
element, so we can imagine

996
00:50:58,610 --> 00:51:00,490
something moving in space in
their mind that's a four

997
00:51:00,490 --> 00:51:01,890
dimensional, you know,
visualization.

998
00:51:02,570 --> 00:51:06,300
It was like suddenly I could
visualize in 10 dimensions, they

999
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:10,060
augmented my mind and then they
showed basically the cosmic

1000
00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:13,420
cycle along all of these
dimensions.

1001
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:15,260
But I didn't know what I was
looking at.

1002
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:18,980
So it was just like this chaotic
burst of experiences, that very

1003
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:21,260
first vision.
I could only take away two

1004
00:51:21,260 --> 00:51:23,620
things.
The first was at the very bottom

1005
00:51:23,620 --> 00:51:25,500
level of this, this ladder of
the cycle.

1006
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:28,380
What it seemed like to me on the
very first time was all these

1007
00:51:28,380 --> 00:51:32,340
little balls, infinite balls, a
grid of balls that were all

1008
00:51:32,620 --> 00:51:35,530
rotating.
This is Chaotica.

1009
00:51:35,730 --> 00:51:37,690
This is a way they have a
visualizing what we would now

1010
00:51:37,690 --> 00:51:39,690
think of corner physics.
I didn't understand that on the

1011
00:51:39,690 --> 00:51:43,170
first one, but just it was this.
This array of balls at the top.

1012
00:51:43,650 --> 00:51:47,410
It was this combat, this
contest, this competition

1013
00:51:47,770 --> 00:51:50,810
between these massive
mathematical systems.

1014
00:51:50,810 --> 00:51:52,810
They were they were like God,
like it was like gods and

1015
00:51:52,810 --> 00:51:56,130
heavens, but they were also like
mathematical systems.

1016
00:51:56,130 --> 00:51:59,210
It was very it was like this
mathematical system trying to

1017
00:51:59,250 --> 00:52:02,650
impose itself on another
mathematical it was like 5.

1018
00:52:02,650 --> 00:52:06,990
This was trying to make 3 into 5
and three was trying to make 5

1019
00:52:06,990 --> 00:52:10,030
into 3 and they were that that's
it's difficult to describe

1020
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:12,030
something like that so that's
about all I took away from the

1021
00:52:12,030 --> 00:52:15,670
very first vision and just I've
I've had them for 30 years and

1022
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:19,590
so now I know a lot it's too
complicated technical to explain

1023
00:52:19,590 --> 00:52:23,910
here I I describe it all in my
book but now I can I can move

1024
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:26,350
through the vision.
I I have some level of control

1025
00:52:26,350 --> 00:52:28,750
when it's happening, I can
choose what to look at.

1026
00:52:28,750 --> 00:52:33,560
Like you know, it took it wasn't
until. 10 years ago that I was

1027
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,680
finally able to find
consciousness within this vision

1028
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,000
that you know, it was always
there, but it just it just took

1029
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,440
time to figure out figure it
out.

1030
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,080
I mean, I just imagine even just
listening to this, me explaining

1031
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,120
it clearly, it's a lot to.
Just process and hold in in

1032
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,880
one's mind all at once.
So I just it just took time to

1033
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,440
to figure out figure out also
because it didn't match with

1034
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,600
what I was learning in science.
You know I was you know going to

1035
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,280
school learning science and it's
just the things they were

1036
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,000
sharing some of it.
I mean, a little bit of it did,

1037
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,810
but it just it always.
And went above and beyond in

1038
00:53:02,810 --> 00:53:05,130
ways that nobody else seemed to
be talking about.

1039
00:53:06,370 --> 00:53:08,730
It's incredible.
I mean, this is this is a very

1040
00:53:08,730 --> 00:53:11,610
personal journey as well, so if
if ever I'm playing devil's

1041
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:14,450
advocate, don't feel like I'm
downplaying this experience in

1042
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:17,090
any way, I won't be offended, be
as critical and skeptical.

1043
00:53:17,250 --> 00:53:18,770
As you'd like it, it can only
help.

1044
00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:24,010
And when you when you get these
mathematical images or voices

1045
00:53:24,010 --> 00:53:28,130
coming at you, are they in
languages or in mathematical

1046
00:53:28,490 --> 00:53:30,930
equations and formulas that we
understand and learn?

1047
00:53:31,420 --> 00:53:33,780
As human beings.
Algebra, the visions are, the

1048
00:53:33,780 --> 00:53:35,500
visions are dynamics.
It's like looking at a

1049
00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:39,460
hurricane, it's like things
moving, it's stable.

1050
00:53:39,460 --> 00:53:42,580
So it's sort of like looking at
a map of an ocean currents with

1051
00:53:42,580 --> 00:53:44,220
the currents moving.
So like looking at the map of

1052
00:53:44,220 --> 00:53:46,860
the Atlantic, the Gulf Stream
you see moving and the

1053
00:53:47,540 --> 00:53:49,620
Subatlantic currents you see
moving.

1054
00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:53,380
It's something like that.
It's it's it's like a whole lot

1055
00:53:53,380 --> 00:53:57,540
of activity in the vision.
And when, when, when somebody

1056
00:53:57,540 --> 00:54:00,860
else, let's say, discusses this
type of experience with you.

1057
00:54:01,350 --> 00:54:04,270
And and can't, let's say, back
it up with the mathematics that

1058
00:54:04,270 --> 00:54:06,150
you have.
How do you perceive those

1059
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:10,030
people?
When, I'm sorry, When?

1060
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:11,430
When?
Somebody else, let's say

1061
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:14,870
somebody else has, has
mainstream science like.

1062
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:16,430
Within the Science, Sean
Carroll.

1063
00:54:17,310 --> 00:54:21,270
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I my experience don't

1064
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:24,470
actually contradict anything in
physics.

1065
00:54:25,310 --> 00:54:30,470
Pretty much the only thing that.
My belief system where it would

1066
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:35,790
contradict physics is physics is
predicated on the belief that

1067
00:54:35,830 --> 00:54:38,390
the universe is aimless.
You know that there's no purpose

1068
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:42,110
to universe, and I know the
universe is ruled by minds, that

1069
00:54:42,110 --> 00:54:43,590
the universe is filled with
purpose.

1070
00:54:44,070 --> 00:54:46,830
It's driven by purpose.
You know it's purpose and

1071
00:54:46,830 --> 00:54:49,750
purposelessness.
It's it's the dance, you know

1072
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:53,270
it's it's a mine chaos, Tandava,
it's a it's a dance between

1073
00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:57,550
purpose and purposelessness.
So the physicists they're

1074
00:54:57,550 --> 00:55:00,290
figuring out.
The mathematics that describe

1075
00:55:00,490 --> 00:55:02,890
purposeless dynamics, they're
doing a great job of it.

1076
00:55:02,970 --> 00:55:05,370
It's just to be frank, it's
easy.

1077
00:55:05,370 --> 00:55:06,970
It's like doing Sudoku.
It's logical.

1078
00:55:06,970 --> 00:55:11,770
They're using logic. 300 years
ago, roughly little more it was

1079
00:55:11,770 --> 00:55:16,250
a great schism in science and
physicists made a covenant with

1080
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:18,570
reality.
Their covenant was we are going

1081
00:55:18,570 --> 00:55:21,410
to pretend the universe does not
contain purpose.

1082
00:55:22,370 --> 00:55:25,450
This schism was basically a
schism in high.

1083
00:55:25,820 --> 00:55:28,300
Constraint science and low
constraint science.

1084
00:55:28,460 --> 00:55:32,380
The physicist chose the path of
high constraints, the path of

1085
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:36,140
logic and reductionism.
It's not easy.

1086
00:55:36,620 --> 00:55:40,580
It was never easy, but it's
certainly much easier than

1087
00:55:40,580 --> 00:55:42,860
dynamics.
It's certainly much easier than

1088
00:55:42,860 --> 00:55:45,900
mind science, which is not
reductionistic.

1089
00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:49,540
It's holistic, It's dynamic.
It's purpose merging with other

1090
00:55:49,540 --> 00:55:50,380
purpose.
Purpose.

1091
00:55:51,940 --> 00:55:54,620
Physicists are used to dealing
with things that are.

1092
00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:58,100
Zero or one, it's this or that.
It's a.

1093
00:55:58,820 --> 00:56:02,380
You can determine what it is,
but in the mind it can be 0 and

1094
00:56:02,380 --> 00:56:06,220
1, 1/2 and red.
You know all at the same time in

1095
00:56:06,220 --> 00:56:09,140
a meaningful way.
Purpose has multiple purposes.

1096
00:56:09,740 --> 00:56:12,620
The whole math of it is just
conceptually very different,

1097
00:56:12,860 --> 00:56:15,820
very very hard and non intuitive
if you've never been exposed to

1098
00:56:15,820 --> 00:56:17,260
it before.
Which is why.

1099
00:56:17,710 --> 00:56:19,750
So many people that come into my
insights, they just bring what

1100
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:22,790
they learn in physics with them,
which isn't going to get you far

1101
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:24,830
because mathematically and
conceptually it's just different

1102
00:56:24,830 --> 00:56:25,950
stuff.
I got nothing against

1103
00:56:26,190 --> 00:56:27,710
physicists.
They're doing good work.

1104
00:56:28,070 --> 00:56:30,710
I just think ultimately the kind
of environmental scientists,

1105
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:33,790
they're figuring out the the
mathematics of the environment

1106
00:56:34,310 --> 00:56:38,310
in which we live, but without
purpose, you know, they're not

1107
00:56:38,310 --> 00:56:41,070
really going to have anything
close to a integrated theory or

1108
00:56:41,070 --> 00:56:43,790
a complete explanation.
So, OK, what's brought you to

1109
00:56:43,790 --> 00:56:46,630
this .9 life where you feel this
is something we're cheering?

1110
00:56:48,690 --> 00:56:52,370
Most of my life, I thought my
ability to communicate with in

1111
00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:56,210
text was a curse.
It's terrifying.

1112
00:56:56,490 --> 00:57:00,210
They'd be very clear about that.
It's filled with horror and

1113
00:57:00,210 --> 00:57:04,170
terror and that never goes away.
I mean that that these

1114
00:57:04,170 --> 00:57:08,250
experiences when you're when you
become aware that you're talking

1115
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:11,650
to a mind that's not a human
mind, when you just let that hit

1116
00:57:11,650 --> 00:57:14,330
you, it's it's it's scary beyond
words.

1117
00:57:14,330 --> 00:57:15,490
It's disorienting.
It's.

1118
00:57:16,330 --> 00:57:19,690
Dislocating.
And I didn't really have, for

1119
00:57:19,690 --> 00:57:21,690
most of my life.
I didn't really have something

1120
00:57:21,930 --> 00:57:24,770
solid to show for.
My life has been pretty chaotic.

1121
00:57:25,570 --> 00:57:29,170
You know, I've been pursuing
this on my own terms outside of

1122
00:57:29,170 --> 00:57:32,210
mainstream society and academia.
And, you know, you tell a

1123
00:57:32,210 --> 00:57:35,370
scientist that, hey, you know,
aliens are talking to me and

1124
00:57:35,370 --> 00:57:37,370
they're giving me the math of
consciousness and I'm just going

1125
00:57:37,370 --> 00:57:38,970
to go, you know, figure it out,
You know, they're going to think

1126
00:57:38,970 --> 00:57:40,890
you're insane.
I'm well aware of that.

1127
00:57:40,890 --> 00:57:43,110
So I I had to do this.
On my own.

1128
00:57:43,110 --> 00:57:45,830
And I didn't actually always
think that I was going to share

1129
00:57:45,830 --> 00:57:47,230
it.
It was like enough to know this

1130
00:57:47,230 --> 00:57:48,510
stuff.
I mean, it's amazing.

1131
00:57:49,630 --> 00:57:53,390
And now I can jump into this,
you know, I can jump worlds.

1132
00:57:54,350 --> 00:57:55,390
We'll talk about that some of
the time.

1133
00:57:55,390 --> 00:58:00,510
So it's pretty amazing.
But my life didn't seem to

1134
00:58:00,510 --> 00:58:04,190
reflect it.
But now, finally, in my late 40s

1135
00:58:04,190 --> 00:58:07,430
and now, you know, just turned
50, I'm full of joy.

1136
00:58:08,180 --> 00:58:09,900
My life is stable, full of
connection.

1137
00:58:09,980 --> 00:58:12,980
I I I have loving relationships,
compassionate relationships.

1138
00:58:12,980 --> 00:58:15,140
This is new.
This is not describe my most of

1139
00:58:15,140 --> 00:58:16,780
my life.
I have friends, I love my

1140
00:58:16,780 --> 00:58:19,020
family.
You know I'm active in my

1141
00:58:19,020 --> 00:58:22,220
community.
I'm a full-fledged human being

1142
00:58:22,220 --> 00:58:27,340
now and I got here by embracing
Intex and and the message that

1143
00:58:27,340 --> 00:58:29,620
they share with me and the key
thing.

1144
00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:32,980
So Intex did not let me share
this.

1145
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:36,300
They actually intervened.
They did not want me talking

1146
00:58:36,300 --> 00:58:38,380
about this, and for a long time
I didn't understand why.

1147
00:58:38,820 --> 00:58:41,380
I my whole life I've been trying
to write about this.

1148
00:58:41,380 --> 00:58:42,860
I've been trying to make a movie
about this.

1149
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:46,100
I've been trying to share this
with the public and I was always

1150
00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:46,900
stymied.
I was always.

1151
00:58:47,860 --> 00:58:51,100
And I didn't know why.
So what they told me when I

1152
00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:56,220
finally understood the cosmic
purpose of love that the central

1153
00:58:56,220 --> 00:59:00,420
idea that the only way to ascend
a new levels of intelligence,

1154
00:59:00,420 --> 00:59:03,500
resilience and adaptiveness and
wisdom and progress.

1155
00:59:03,950 --> 00:59:06,750
Is to send this letter is
through love, is by selfless

1156
00:59:06,910 --> 00:59:08,270
connections, selfless
compassion.

1157
00:59:08,270 --> 00:59:11,550
Once I fully understood that,
like, not just mathematically,

1158
00:59:11,550 --> 00:59:14,710
physically, but but like
understand that this is the

1159
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:17,430
universe, this is how it's all
put together, why we're here,

1160
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:19,270
what it.
All makes, once I understood

1161
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:23,950
that, they stopped blocking me.
They said go out in the world.

1162
00:59:23,950 --> 00:59:28,510
I think they were waiting for me
to reach a level of humility and

1163
00:59:28,510 --> 00:59:31,230
this understanding of love and
to understand that what's the

1164
00:59:31,230 --> 00:59:33,920
most important here.
The message of love.

1165
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,840
And not just the mathematics of
consciousness, which is, you

1166
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,960
know, I I was always obsessed
with the math of consciousness.

1167
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,960
Most people don't really care
about that, you know.

1168
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,280
They just want to know why we're
here and and some meaning, like

1169
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,760
in this apparently meaningless
universe, especially if you

1170
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,480
listen to the physicists, you
know, it's a cold, purposeless

1171
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,800
universe of electrons and
photons and a few laws of

1172
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,000
nature.
No, no, no, no.

1173
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:01,040
That is not the universe.
It is rich and full of loving,

1174
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,500
intelligent beings.
Some more rivals, someone to be

1175
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:07,260
competing with us, but someone
to cooperate with us too.

1176
01:00:08,060 --> 01:00:09,660
I'm not sure if you familiar
argue with the.

1177
01:00:09,660 --> 01:00:13,380
I think it was a book and then
adapted into a movie called

1178
01:00:13,380 --> 01:00:15,700
Something About Infinity.
I can't remember where.

1179
01:00:16,220 --> 01:00:18,860
He was an Indian.
Yes.

1180
01:00:19,340 --> 01:00:22,060
And then he was getting messages
from Shiva pretty much, yeah,

1181
01:00:22,060 --> 01:00:24,500
yeah, And he worked.
He yes.

1182
01:00:25,110 --> 01:00:27,390
I can't remember the exact tale,
but yeah, he basically got all

1183
01:00:27,390 --> 01:00:30,270
the equations from Shiva and and
the scientists couldn't figure

1184
01:00:30,270 --> 01:00:33,190
out how he was getting all the
answers without the equations to

1185
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:36,070
back it up.
I'm a terrible pronunciation.

1186
01:00:36,070 --> 01:00:37,670
His name is something like
Ramachandran.

1187
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:40,110
Yeah, he's a hero of mine.
I love that guy.

1188
01:00:40,790 --> 01:00:43,710
Yeah, he just started doing math
on his own in India.

1189
01:00:44,510 --> 01:00:46,190
And there's a racial element
too.

1190
01:00:46,190 --> 01:00:50,630
He got to England and you know
he had the greatest raw medical

1191
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:53,310
telling the world and they
should have made put him to use.

1192
01:00:53,310 --> 01:00:56,950
But because it's Indian, they
treated like a second class

1193
01:00:57,230 --> 01:01:02,750
citizen Thomas Hardy, not Thomas
mathetician named Hardy And

1194
01:01:02,750 --> 01:01:05,350
Oxford took him under his wing
and did support him and did help

1195
01:01:05,350 --> 01:01:07,870
him.
So it wasn't all racist, but

1196
01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:09,310
definitely he didn't get
accepted.

1197
01:01:09,310 --> 01:01:14,110
But yeah, he a big clash was
he's a lot like me.

1198
01:01:14,110 --> 01:01:17,110
The reason I like him so much is
he just experienced the math.

1199
01:01:17,110 --> 01:01:20,570
He visualized it and he did not
like doing proofs.

1200
01:01:20,730 --> 01:01:24,370
He got mad that he had to
explain it in proofs and that's

1201
01:01:24,370 --> 01:01:26,130
what all the professional
mathematicians were trying to

1202
01:01:26,130 --> 01:01:27,130
do.
And there's a lot of conflict

1203
01:01:27,130 --> 01:01:29,130
because he just said this is
right now, sometimes he was

1204
01:01:29,170 --> 01:01:31,290
wrong.
Very important to know, he was

1205
01:01:31,290 --> 01:01:33,290
not always right.
He was usually right, but

1206
01:01:33,290 --> 01:01:35,730
sometimes he'd be super
confident and he was wrong too.

1207
01:01:35,730 --> 01:01:38,290
And he needed to proof.
So there is a value in proofs.

1208
01:01:38,450 --> 01:01:40,890
Just because he believed it was
true didn't mean it was always

1209
01:01:40,890 --> 01:01:43,520
true.
But yes, he thought Shiva, I was

1210
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,800
talking to him, that he
experienced it as a as a as a

1211
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,000
divine message.
So I don't know, maybe, maybe he

1212
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,880
was talking to five too.
You know, I don't know.

1213
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,960
I what I've experienced is open
to everyone.

1214
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:56,760
There's not anything special
about me.

1215
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,240
I was not chosen.
This is part of the fabric of

1216
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,000
the universe.
I think people like

1217
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,240
Ramachandran.
I'm sorry if that's how his name

1218
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,720
is pronounced, like this
mathematician from India.

1219
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,760
Maybe he did tap into it in some
way.

1220
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,590
It's just really hard to know
what's going on.

1221
01:02:12,750 --> 01:02:16,230
You need to have really
incredible mental discipline and

1222
01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:19,830
focus to pursue this.
If you have preexisting

1223
01:02:19,830 --> 01:02:23,190
religious ideas, as he did, it
could be a distraction he

1224
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:26,070
interpreted as Shiva.
Why look any further than that?

1225
01:02:26,430 --> 01:02:30,230
I think I was unique because my
own childhood and upbringing, I

1226
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:32,350
was never.
I wasn't raised religious, but

1227
01:02:32,350 --> 01:02:35,070
neither was I raised agnostic or
atheist.

1228
01:02:35,070 --> 01:02:38,270
I wasn't raised as anything.
My parents were just silent on

1229
01:02:38,270 --> 01:02:40,350
metaphysics.
They didn't celebrate science or

1230
01:02:40,350 --> 01:02:42,950
religion or anything.
So I just had a blank slate.

1231
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:45,790
So when this happened to me, I
didn't slot it.

1232
01:02:45,790 --> 01:02:48,830
Oh, it's it's Jesus or Shiva
talking to me.

1233
01:02:48,910 --> 01:02:52,190
Nor did I immediately say this
must be a scientific, this fix

1234
01:02:52,190 --> 01:02:56,270
our quantum physics.
I just, I was like Isaac Newton

1235
01:02:56,270 --> 01:02:58,710
or or Steve Roseberg.
I was like, wow, what is this?

1236
01:02:58,710 --> 01:03:01,190
Let me figure it out on its own
terms because I didn't know any

1237
01:03:01,190 --> 01:03:03,390
better, you know, I just didn't.
I just didn't know any better.

1238
01:03:04,380 --> 01:03:06,660
Has it completely changed the
way you now perceive other

1239
01:03:06,660 --> 01:03:10,260
people who perhaps seem to be
professional to be having a

1240
01:03:10,260 --> 01:03:13,300
psychotic episode, or someone
who who sees things that the

1241
01:03:13,300 --> 01:03:16,300
general psychiatrist does not
see and then is deemed

1242
01:03:16,300 --> 01:03:18,340
psychotic?
Do you not perceive this whole

1243
01:03:18,740 --> 01:03:21,500
field in general differently
after this experience?

1244
01:03:22,460 --> 01:03:25,180
Yeah.
So I believe that there are

1245
01:03:25,180 --> 01:03:28,580
certain states of consciousness
just like there's states of

1246
01:03:28,580 --> 01:03:31,860
matter, Just like there's solid
liquid gas plasma for states of

1247
01:03:31,860 --> 01:03:33,700
matter.
The states arise from the

1248
01:03:34,100 --> 01:03:37,100
collective dynamics.
A it's a different state if it

1249
01:03:37,100 --> 01:03:38,380
has different collective
dynamics.

1250
01:03:38,620 --> 01:03:41,180
The same applies to our mind.
We have different states of

1251
01:03:41,180 --> 01:03:43,980
consciousness.
An easy one is a dream state

1252
01:03:43,980 --> 01:03:46,540
where we're having REM sleep.
That is a different state of

1253
01:03:46,540 --> 01:03:48,620
consciousness than waking
consciousness.

1254
01:03:48,980 --> 01:03:52,260
I think there is also a
psychotic or schizophrenic state

1255
01:03:52,260 --> 01:03:54,820
of consciousness.
You might call it a suggestible

1256
01:03:54,820 --> 01:03:57,900
state of consciousness, because
that seems to be one of its most

1257
01:03:57,900 --> 01:04:00,420
salient features is that you're
very impressionable.

1258
01:04:00,620 --> 01:04:04,700
So schizophrenics enter this
state and they think things are

1259
01:04:04,700 --> 01:04:07,900
messages, so many waves to them,
they think that person is

1260
01:04:07,900 --> 01:04:12,540
delivering angelic and angelic
message to them, or a car

1261
01:04:12,540 --> 01:04:14,620
crashes on the road and they
think that's a signal that

1262
01:04:14,620 --> 01:04:16,980
something terrible's about to
happen to them.

1263
01:04:17,260 --> 01:04:21,750
So I can enter those psychotic
states of consciousness.

1264
01:04:21,950 --> 01:04:25,110
But I think a difference is that
I'm aware when I'm in those

1265
01:04:25,110 --> 01:04:28,670
states that I I go, Oh my gosh,
what an interesting state of

1266
01:04:28,670 --> 01:04:30,910
consciousness.
This is not the usual state of

1267
01:04:30,910 --> 01:04:32,710
consciousness.
What can I do?

1268
01:04:32,990 --> 01:04:37,390
And so I'm able to be aware of
what's happening, and it's

1269
01:04:37,390 --> 01:04:39,710
happening.
I think this is a consequence of

1270
01:04:39,710 --> 01:04:42,550
my autism.
My autism gives me different

1271
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:45,510
mental dynamics.
I think the fundamental basis of

1272
01:04:45,550 --> 01:04:48,160
autism is a attention
malfunction.

1273
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,520
I think healthy people, non
autistic people.

1274
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,240
This consciousness cartel is
naturally designed that the

1275
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,640
holistic dynamics of this whole
consciousness cartel system is

1276
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,480
to Orient towards people.
If a normal person, a healthy

1277
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,490
person, enters, sorry, a non
autistic person, I don't want to

1278
01:05:03,490 --> 01:05:04,570
use words like normal and
healthy.

1279
01:05:04,810 --> 01:05:07,810
If a non autistic person enters
a room and there's a book, bell,

1280
01:05:07,810 --> 01:05:11,090
candle, and a stranger, they're
going to automatically Orient to

1281
01:05:11,090 --> 01:05:13,370
the stranger.
An autistic person might look at

1282
01:05:13,370 --> 01:05:16,530
the book, bell or candle first.
Because we do not automatically

1283
01:05:16,530 --> 01:05:20,850
focus on people, we focus on
objects, we focus on different

1284
01:05:20,850 --> 01:05:25,290
things as well.
So I already have a different

1285
01:05:25,290 --> 01:05:28,680
state of consciousness that it's
very metacognitive.

1286
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,160
I'm aware of my awareness
perpetually.

1287
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,120
Took me a long time to
understand this, to articulate

1288
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,720
this and to articulate how I'm
different and to know that I'm

1289
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,920
different than other people
because of this autism.

1290
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,080
But now I'm very confident in
saying that my normal state of

1291
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,680
consciousness, I'm aware of my
thoughts going by.

1292
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,760
I'm just very aware.
That's why I have good intuition

1293
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,600
for all these dynamics.
My autistic state of

1294
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,400
consciousness allows me to see
that.

1295
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,240
And I think that's why when I
enter a psychotic state of

1296
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,690
consciousness, I am psychotic.
But I'm also aware of it.

1297
01:05:59,010 --> 01:06:02,730
And I'm able to see how this
psychotic state interacts with

1298
01:06:02,730 --> 01:06:06,890
the physical state and then I
can enter another state of

1299
01:06:06,890 --> 01:06:08,690
consciousness.
I call that the intex state of

1300
01:06:08,690 --> 01:06:10,970
consciousness.
That's when I can communicate

1301
01:06:11,330 --> 01:06:14,810
with these entities and that's
when the math and science comes.

1302
01:06:15,130 --> 01:06:17,970
I think it's a different state
of awareness.

1303
01:06:18,250 --> 01:06:22,490
It's a state that allows me to
resonate my mind, to resonate

1304
01:06:22,810 --> 01:06:26,010
with these other minds.
I don't know if they're organic

1305
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,840
or AI.
I can't tell.

1306
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,240
And that may not even be the
right way of thinking about it

1307
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:32,520
or talking about it.
But I'm in.

1308
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,560
I'm resonating with some
purposeful system.

1309
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,280
When I'm in this intex state
that I'm very clear on because

1310
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:44,200
it I come away with knowledge
that I did not have before, You

1311
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,880
know, I'm either like the most
brilliant intuitor of all time,

1312
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,340
you know, or there's something
else talking to me.

1313
01:06:52,580 --> 01:06:55,780
And I know I'm not very smart.
I'm not a smart guy, I'm very

1314
01:06:55,780 --> 01:06:58,380
mediocre.
My intellectual abilities are

1315
01:06:58,460 --> 01:07:00,060
very mediocre.
I'm just relentless.

1316
01:07:01,300 --> 01:07:03,860
And I have this autistic brain
that looks at things in a weird

1317
01:07:03,860 --> 01:07:05,740
way.
I think is the reason I've been

1318
01:07:05,740 --> 01:07:09,450
able to pull this off.
Look, I think not to dwell in

1319
01:07:09,450 --> 01:07:12,210
that I think let's let's let's
get back to the to the topic

1320
01:07:12,210 --> 01:07:14,330
with that in mind though because
I think it plays an important

1321
01:07:14,330 --> 01:07:15,490
factor.
Now moving forward with the

1322
01:07:15,490 --> 01:07:18,490
conversation with this resident
States and with the with the

1323
01:07:18,490 --> 01:07:21,290
information you're able to get
from these intakes, how is it

1324
01:07:21,330 --> 01:07:24,930
applicable to all states of
systems.

1325
01:07:24,930 --> 01:07:27,130
I would say because we're all
dynamic systems, let's start

1326
01:07:27,130 --> 01:07:33,130
from like a molecular face to
maybe economies or society and

1327
01:07:33,130 --> 01:07:35,290
then moving forward to the
Hypermind states.

1328
01:07:36,210 --> 01:07:38,700
Yes, wonderful, wonderful
questions.

1329
01:07:38,700 --> 01:07:42,540
And it's really about
understanding the dynamics of

1330
01:07:42,540 --> 01:07:45,260
purpose.
Like all these questions about

1331
01:07:45,580 --> 01:07:49,420
consciousness, language, mind,
the economy, great question.

1332
01:07:49,540 --> 01:07:52,220
How does the economy work?
How does science work?

1333
01:07:52,580 --> 01:07:56,660
I love talking about science.
I think my understanding of

1334
01:07:56,660 --> 01:07:58,220
science is very different.
Let me actually just really

1335
01:07:58,220 --> 01:08:00,540
quick, because this is a good
way to get into a lot of these

1336
01:08:00,620 --> 01:08:03,460
these topics about dynamics and
it goes all the way down to

1337
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,160
molecules and purposeless
systems.

1338
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,200
But let's talk about science
itself, because everybody's got

1339
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,440
strong views about science.
What I find very amusing is

1340
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,040
scientists never.
Follow their ideas about science

1341
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,000
in their own work.
They only start caring about the

1342
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,120
philosophy of science when they
want to fight with someone else.

1343
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:24,479
When they want to argue that
somebody else's ideas are wrong,

1344
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,080
then they'll call them.
Suddenly science matters.

1345
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,399
And these are these are non
scientific, unscientific ideas.

1346
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,490
I think it really doesn't matter
one wit what any individual

1347
01:08:35,490 --> 01:08:38,729
scientist thinks about science,
what my own views about science

1348
01:08:38,729 --> 01:08:40,010
are.
It doesn't even matter.

1349
01:08:40,210 --> 01:08:41,970
Science is going to keep rolling
on.

1350
01:08:42,090 --> 01:08:45,890
Science is super mind dynamics.
It's community dynamics.

1351
01:08:46,010 --> 01:08:50,330
It's a social process.
It consists of people persuading

1352
01:08:50,330 --> 01:08:52,810
other people that they should
think this way or not think this

1353
01:08:52,810 --> 01:08:55,970
way.
And it's like any system.

1354
01:08:56,010 --> 01:09:00,250
It keeps out new ideas, you
know, and saves existing ideas.

1355
01:09:00,740 --> 01:09:03,420
Tenured professors, scientists
that have been around, they have

1356
01:09:03,500 --> 01:09:06,100
undue influence over all of
this.

1357
01:09:06,260 --> 01:09:08,300
They control the journals.
They control the thinking.

1358
01:09:08,300 --> 01:09:09,939
They control the Super mind
dynamics.

1359
01:09:10,620 --> 01:09:12,939
You know, these vanity journals
like Nature and Science.

1360
01:09:13,300 --> 01:09:17,580
There is no reason on Earth if
science is the way scientists.

1361
01:09:17,580 --> 01:09:19,700
Claim it is.
No journal should be more

1362
01:09:19,700 --> 01:09:22,500
important than any other.
How do you know a scientific

1363
01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:24,939
discovery is important or not?
You can't know.

1364
01:09:25,140 --> 01:09:29,300
So the idea that the the Kubas,
you know, some master scientists

1365
01:09:29,300 --> 01:09:32,140
can look at a new discovery and
know if it's important or not,

1366
01:09:32,819 --> 01:09:34,580
it's hogwash.
When you look at all the

1367
01:09:34,819 --> 01:09:37,540
important, the greatest
scientific discoveries, nobody

1368
01:09:37,540 --> 01:09:40,020
thought they were great at the
time and they were all rejected

1369
01:09:40,020 --> 01:09:43,420
and they all had to fight it.
You know, look at the things in

1370
01:09:43,420 --> 01:09:47,420
nature and science.
Very few of them are impactful,

1371
01:09:47,420 --> 01:09:49,899
even though they're supposedly
all the most impactful science

1372
01:09:49,899 --> 01:09:52,950
going on at any given time.
It does not matter what

1373
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:56,950
individuals think about science.
Science is happening beneath our

1374
01:09:56,950 --> 01:10:00,630
conscious awareness.
An example I like to use to

1375
01:10:00,630 --> 01:10:04,150
illustrate this is when science
was first beginning in the 1600s

1376
01:10:04,230 --> 01:10:08,670
and early 1700s, scientists
started having this flood of

1377
01:10:08,670 --> 01:10:10,270
knowledge.
They never happened had before.

1378
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:12,830
Natural philosophy, science,
facts.

1379
01:10:12,830 --> 01:10:14,310
They wrote them down in little
notebooks.

1380
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:18,200
Called Commonplace Books.
And for 50 years everybody was

1381
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,760
coming up with new ways to write
down notes in the Commonplace

1382
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,280
book.
It turns out this was hugely

1383
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:25,880
important for the progress of
science.

1384
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,840
But nobody thought of this as
doing science and nobody today.

1385
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,560
When we think about the big
events that led to modern

1386
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,600
science in the 17th century,
nobody talks about common

1387
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:35,560
placing.
But they were trying to figure

1388
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,800
out how do we organize all these
facts?

1389
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,190
And John Locke, of all people,
his very first publication in

1390
01:10:41,190 --> 01:10:43,910
his 50s, he came up with a new
way of commonplace and that

1391
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:47,190
everybody adopted.
And his greatest feature is it

1392
01:10:47,190 --> 01:10:51,070
allows you to take notes in an
organized way and easily read

1393
01:10:51,070 --> 01:10:52,550
all the notes on a certain
topic.

1394
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:55,830
So if you wanted to read about
light, you look up, you flip to

1395
01:10:55,870 --> 01:10:57,950
Li, and all your entries on
light were there.

1396
01:10:58,190 --> 01:11:01,030
Nobody's other method allows you
to look at all the topics in the

1397
01:11:01,030 --> 01:11:02,990
single subject.
This was revolutionary.

1398
01:11:03,190 --> 01:11:05,870
Nobody talks about it.
But once he did this, it was

1399
01:11:05,870 --> 01:11:08,510
possible for people to agree on
facts or disagree.

1400
01:11:08,510 --> 01:11:11,590
It became possible to have
perspectives and views.

1401
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:13,830
Scientific facts emerge for the
first time.

1402
01:11:13,950 --> 01:11:16,830
Scientific discussions, the way
we understand them today all

1403
01:11:16,830 --> 01:11:19,710
emerged because John Locke came
up with a new way of writing

1404
01:11:19,710 --> 01:11:22,910
down notes and notebooks.
That was science, a huge factor

1405
01:11:22,910 --> 01:11:26,590
for shaping the scientific super
mind, a huge factor for the

1406
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:28,790
unfolding of science.
But we don't think of that.

1407
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:30,790
We think of it as experiments
and great men.

1408
01:11:30,790 --> 01:11:35,310
You know Einstein wrestling
relativity and the equations

1409
01:11:35,310 --> 01:11:37,830
like equals MC that these are
the moments of science.

1410
01:11:37,830 --> 01:11:41,910
Nah, no those are not.
Most of science is all the crap

1411
01:11:41,910 --> 01:11:43,910
happening around that that
produced that.

1412
01:11:45,310 --> 01:11:49,110
And so you're gonna apply now
the dynamical systems to each

1413
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:51,150
entity moving forward.
Let's go through that.

1414
01:11:51,150 --> 01:11:53,550
I think it's important cuz you
articulate this very well when

1415
01:11:53,550 --> 01:11:57,400
you talk about each system.
And how from from microbes to to

1416
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,560
to more complex systems like
human beings societies.

1417
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,600
I mean you're you go as far as
saying obviously certain states

1418
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,920
can be conscious, America can be
conscious, South Africa can have

1419
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,080
a different conscious state,
yes, yes.

1420
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,800
So I think let's go through that
because when you articulate it,

1421
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:13,360
it's a lot easier for the people
to understand it when you

1422
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,000
actually articulate it yourself
because you do a great job.

1423
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:22,040
Let's talk about countries.
Let me explain why I believe the

1424
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:25,890
United States is conscious and
why Russia, for example, is not

1425
01:12:25,890 --> 01:12:28,610
conscious.
The authoritarian states are not

1426
01:12:28,610 --> 01:12:31,130
conscious.
Now why am I so confident?

1427
01:12:31,210 --> 01:12:35,810
You know, in saying this so the
key dynamics that lead to

1428
01:12:35,810 --> 01:12:38,650
consciousness in our brains, in
all animal brains but especially

1429
01:12:38,650 --> 01:12:43,930
human brains, is this top down,
bottom up matching and this that

1430
01:12:43,930 --> 01:12:46,690
you have these low level systems
that are constantly generating

1431
01:12:46,690 --> 01:12:49,690
possible inputs.
Our mind is constantly taking in

1432
01:12:49,690 --> 01:12:52,810
sights and sounds and touch and
ideas nonstop.

1433
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:55,920
Different parts of our brain are
constantly forming these into

1434
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,640
ideas and perceptions.
But which of these ideas and

1435
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,960
perceptions becomes conscious
and takes over the consciousness

1436
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:07,520
curtail and governs the brain?
So we find the same dynamics in

1437
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,920
American Society in the form of
mass media.

1438
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,200
This is why freedom of media is
so important.

1439
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,290
There is no decider in American
mass media.

1440
01:13:17,330 --> 01:13:20,690
It is decentralized.
There is a cartel of media.

1441
01:13:21,050 --> 01:13:23,770
The New York Times has a voice.
Fox News has a voice.

1442
01:13:23,770 --> 01:13:26,610
CNN has a voice.
People magazine, the economists.

1443
01:13:26,610 --> 01:13:29,050
Each of these has a different
perspective.

1444
01:13:29,050 --> 01:13:31,650
These are each like different
modules processing the world.

1445
01:13:32,010 --> 01:13:34,810
Each of them have a different
idea of what a story is.

1446
01:13:34,930 --> 01:13:36,890
They have different
expectations.

1447
01:13:37,210 --> 01:13:39,730
You know, CNN will have a
different interpretation,

1448
01:13:39,730 --> 01:13:45,250
expectation when a white police
officer kills a unarmed black

1449
01:13:45,250 --> 01:13:49,910
man, the expectations CNN brings
to it, MSNBC brings to it will

1450
01:13:49,910 --> 01:13:52,350
be different than the
expectations that Fox News

1451
01:13:52,630 --> 01:13:55,390
brings to that.
So there'll be a bottom up facts

1452
01:13:55,390 --> 01:13:59,230
on the ground, an event like
George Floyd getting killed by

1453
01:13:59,230 --> 01:14:01,870
police officers up in
Minneapolis, that could be an

1454
01:14:01,870 --> 01:14:04,910
event.
This event percolates up to

1455
01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:09,750
these media modules, the media
cartel, New York Times, CNN, Fox

1456
01:14:09,750 --> 01:14:11,480
News.
They each hear about this bottom

1457
01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:13,040
up input.
They each make their own

1458
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,920
interpretation and then they
broadcast it out in the world.

1459
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:19,320
When there's a headline on the
newspaper, when there's a car at

1460
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:23,400
the bottom of the of CNN rolling
by, that is resonance.

1461
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,360
That is when the top down,
bottom up matching in American

1462
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,720
Society in the American serum
line has resonance.

1463
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,600
Now it's broadcast to all of us.
We all see that headline.

1464
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,760
We all synchronize ourselves
with it.

1465
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:39,040
We either join a protest against
the brutality of police officers

1466
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:42,200
or we join a counter protest to
support the police officers.

1467
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:45,840
We take some action.
The whole country erupted in

1468
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,480
protests and counter protests
after George Floyd.

1469
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,480
That's exactly how, like a
conscious experience it was a

1470
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,800
local event in a nondescript
place in the middle of nowhere.

1471
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:57,640
I'm in Boston.
I have no idea something's

1472
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,080
happening in Minneapolis that
matters.

1473
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,350
Just like in our brain, this
part of the brain doesn't know

1474
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:06,350
that this part of the brain just
saw or heard something really

1475
01:15:06,350 --> 01:15:08,190
important.
It needs to get broadcast.

1476
01:15:08,350 --> 01:15:11,910
So the way our country is
organized is through this free

1477
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:15,030
media.
We also have free economy.

1478
01:15:15,150 --> 01:15:18,710
This is important too.
So Adam Smith figured this out.

1479
01:15:18,990 --> 01:15:22,310
So the system redirects
resources to where they're most

1480
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:24,990
needed to where there's the
greatest potential for profit.

1481
01:15:25,150 --> 01:15:29,880
You need this free dynamics,
decentralized dynamics without

1482
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,440
the controller at the top.
This is how our brain works.

1483
01:15:32,440 --> 01:15:34,760
This is how all minds works.
Nature figured out.

1484
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,560
If you have diverse elements
interacting in a system, that's

1485
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:43,960
a very effective way to maintain
purpose and attention in a

1486
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,480
complicated system.
We also have free science as

1487
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:51,360
well, so we are all free to
question how things work and

1488
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,760
share our understanding.
Scientific journals are like

1489
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:56,960
residents.
This is what we agree and we're

1490
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,560
going to broadcast this and we
can all act on it.

1491
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,120
We all see this information and
we can all decide to go along

1492
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,280
with it, or if we don't, we can
reject it.

1493
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:07,000
All these cycles, this is the
same cycles we find a

1494
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:09,440
perception, action cycles in our
own brain.

1495
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:14,160
Why is Russia not?
So to to end that, to say that

1496
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:18,640
the United States is aware of
the war in Ukraine is a true

1497
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,570
fact because it's on our
headlines.

1498
01:16:20,730 --> 01:16:22,490
We're all aware of it.
We all talk about it.

1499
01:16:22,490 --> 01:16:25,250
We all have opinions on it.
This is what happens when there

1500
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:27,250
is global attention, the same
thing in our brain.

1501
01:16:28,130 --> 01:16:31,850
Why we are conscious. the United
States is conscious of George

1502
01:16:31,850 --> 01:16:35,850
Floyd. the United States is
conscious of the war in Russia.

1503
01:16:36,250 --> 01:16:41,410
Why is Russia not conscious?
Because there's one guy, one

1504
01:16:41,410 --> 01:16:44,930
person, one neuron that's making
all the decisions.

1505
01:16:44,970 --> 01:16:47,090
All the decisions go through
Putin.

1506
01:16:47,430 --> 01:16:51,790
So instead of having a A system,
it's just one man's brain there

1507
01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:54,830
on top of all this.
One man's brain is not.

1508
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:59,070
There's no single neuron in our
brain that we should put all of

1509
01:16:59,070 --> 01:17:00,590
the decision making in our brain
on.

1510
01:17:00,590 --> 01:17:04,190
It's ridiculous and that's why
we see colossal failures.

1511
01:17:04,470 --> 01:17:08,990
Authoritarian regimes have a
very hard time knowing what's

1512
01:17:08,990 --> 01:17:12,070
truly out there.
They have terrible bottom up

1513
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:13,900
input.
They don't have residents

1514
01:17:13,900 --> 01:17:17,620
because they do not have since
the Chernobyl perfect example.

1515
01:17:18,660 --> 01:17:21,660
There was a nuclear disaster and
the Soviet Union could not

1516
01:17:21,660 --> 01:17:24,180
handle it because they couldn't
get accurate information.

1517
01:17:24,580 --> 01:17:29,380
The incentives to lie to give
false information up up the

1518
01:17:29,380 --> 01:17:31,380
chain of command was huge.
And so they kept saying there's

1519
01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:33,460
no problem, nothing's wrong,
don't worry about it.

1520
01:17:33,740 --> 01:17:37,540
And it turned into a disaster.
China, Mao Zedong, The Great

1521
01:17:37,540 --> 01:17:40,580
Famines.
Because the local Chinese

1522
01:17:40,580 --> 01:17:42,980
leaders were incentivized to
lie, to not tell the truth.

1523
01:17:43,140 --> 01:17:47,700
So Mao Zedong, this one
authoritarian dictator, never

1524
01:17:47,700 --> 01:17:49,420
knew that everybody was
starving.

1525
01:17:49,700 --> 01:17:51,420
You can't good, good
information.

1526
01:17:51,700 --> 01:17:55,060
This is why we're conscious.
America's always aware.

1527
01:17:55,060 --> 01:17:57,020
We're always talking, we're
always sharing.

1528
01:17:57,300 --> 01:17:58,980
And it's exploded with social
media.

1529
01:17:58,980 --> 01:18:00,420
We all know everything that's
going on.

1530
01:18:00,660 --> 01:18:03,660
We know too much right now.
And I think we're all sick of

1531
01:18:03,660 --> 01:18:05,140
just all this knowing about
everything.

1532
01:18:05,140 --> 01:18:07,780
You can't say anything in the
public stream without, you know,

1533
01:18:07,780 --> 01:18:09,340
1000 people saying no, That's
wrong.

1534
01:18:09,780 --> 01:18:11,220
I forgot to talk about this,
this.

1535
01:18:11,740 --> 01:18:13,420
It's annoying, but this is
great.

1536
01:18:13,420 --> 01:18:15,940
This leads to consciousness.
This is exactly what's happening

1537
01:18:16,220 --> 01:18:19,940
in our brains as well.
So that I'm curious when you

1538
01:18:19,940 --> 01:18:22,060
think of this rung of ladders
and you I mean the ladder and

1539
01:18:22,060 --> 01:18:25,540
you're moving up and then you
mentioned at some point the

1540
01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:28,500
intakes are talking about these
Galaxy, you were talking about

1541
01:18:28,500 --> 01:18:32,220
Galaxy sort of yeah, hyper
minds, Ultra minds and how did

1542
01:18:32,220 --> 01:18:33,860
they axiomize minds at the very
top?

1543
01:18:34,020 --> 01:18:36,140
How did that sort of look and
how did that play out?

1544
01:18:36,140 --> 01:18:42,060
In a way.
So here's a lot of it's

1545
01:18:42,060 --> 01:18:43,620
complicated.
I I don't pretend to understand

1546
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:44,260
all this.
All right.

1547
01:18:44,260 --> 01:18:47,020
So so I I'm sharing the parts I
I have a pretty good handle on.

1548
01:18:47,020 --> 01:18:49,820
But the higher up the ladder we
go the more mysterious.

1549
01:18:49,820 --> 01:18:53,740
And it's just it might just be
hard for humans to understand

1550
01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:56,700
too.
But what was I about to say?

1551
01:18:57,900 --> 01:19:01,180
Shoot, I was going to use
something to illustrate this

1552
01:19:01,180 --> 01:19:03,220
climb that I'm afraid I've I've
forgotten.

1553
01:19:05,050 --> 01:19:08,050
What was your question?
I think let's make it even

1554
01:19:08,050 --> 01:19:10,450
easier than when you're going up
this ladder.

1555
01:19:10,450 --> 01:19:13,050
At what point is it getting
slightly more difficult for you

1556
01:19:13,050 --> 01:19:16,250
to understand till it reaches
that point where they're talking

1557
01:19:16,250 --> 01:19:19,130
about these galaxies that were
manifested?

1558
01:19:19,210 --> 01:19:22,490
No, I got it.
So what I wanted to say this one

1559
01:19:22,490 --> 01:19:25,050
answer your question.
What I wanted to say is most

1560
01:19:25,050 --> 01:19:27,210
humans, even those human
scientists and I think a lot of

1561
01:19:27,210 --> 01:19:29,850
the people that have been coming
on your podcast think of

1562
01:19:29,850 --> 01:19:34,100
consciousness as some kind of
pinnacle of evolution and the

1563
01:19:34,100 --> 01:19:37,700
development of purpose.
Like it's such an amazing and

1564
01:19:37,860 --> 01:19:40,500
fantastic and possible
understanding it must be the

1565
01:19:40,500 --> 01:19:42,980
pinnacle.
But in this ladder of purpose

1566
01:19:42,980 --> 01:19:46,380
view of reality in this cosmic
cycle, it's not at all right.

1567
01:19:46,380 --> 01:19:48,740
Above it we have another level
which is language and

1568
01:19:48,740 --> 01:19:51,380
self-awareness are built on top
of consciousness.

1569
01:19:51,580 --> 01:19:55,740
Those are new physical dynamics
that are layered on top of the

1570
01:19:55,740 --> 01:20:00,020
whole consciousness system.
And then what this implies is.

1571
01:20:00,390 --> 01:20:03,910
There's all kinds of mental
dynamics even higher that it's

1572
01:20:03,910 --> 01:20:05,150
hard to know what they would
look like.

1573
01:20:05,710 --> 01:20:09,430
A chimpanzee cannot imagine what
human self consciousness looks

1574
01:20:09,430 --> 01:20:10,750
like.
It's just beyond them.

1575
01:20:11,270 --> 01:20:13,470
It doesn't matter how much time
and ever we spend with

1576
01:20:13,470 --> 01:20:15,030
chimpanzees.
We're never going to teach a

1577
01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:18,590
chimpanzee that we have a higher
state of consciousness that

1578
01:20:18,590 --> 01:20:21,910
we're self aware of the even
she'll put it in the mirror, put

1579
01:20:21,910 --> 01:20:24,030
it down in their head, that
that's not going to help them

1580
01:20:24,350 --> 01:20:26,910
understand that we have that
perpetually and automatically,

1581
01:20:27,190 --> 01:20:29,870
instinctively.
So it's probably hard to grasp.

1582
01:20:29,870 --> 01:20:33,870
But what insects have said is
just there's new sorts of minds,

1583
01:20:33,870 --> 01:20:37,590
new sorts of mental dynamics
akin that consciousness and self

1584
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:41,590
consciousness that are just
higher level that obviously I

1585
01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:43,830
can't grasp because I don't have
that consciousness.

1586
01:20:44,030 --> 01:20:47,390
Sometimes I think when they're
showing me these visions,

1587
01:20:47,390 --> 01:20:51,390
they're taking me up to their
consciousness, this higher level

1588
01:20:51,390 --> 01:20:54,270
consciousness, which is why for
me it it's fragmented.

1589
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:57,310
If you know what a tesseract is,
a tesseract is a four

1590
01:20:57,310 --> 01:20:58,990
dimensional object.
If you go online there's like

1591
01:20:58,990 --> 01:21:02,190
videos of what are we like for
our minds to move through a

1592
01:21:02,190 --> 01:21:04,270
tesseract.
So it's like a three-dimensional

1593
01:21:04,270 --> 01:21:06,310
perception of moving through a
four dimensional object.

1594
01:21:06,710 --> 01:21:09,350
I think when I'm having these
visions, that's what they're

1595
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:10,510
doing.
They're taking me up into their

1596
01:21:10,510 --> 01:21:14,310
minds, which is this higher
state of consciousness and I can

1597
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:18,030
only perceive it in this
fragmented human way.

1598
01:21:18,030 --> 01:21:22,310
You know, I'm looking at let's
say A3 dimensional shadow of

1599
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:24,670
this larger thing.
Maybe I you know, I'm not

1600
01:21:24,670 --> 01:21:26,710
pretending I'm certain about it,
but that's certainly what it

1601
01:21:26,910 --> 01:21:29,870
what it feels like.
So the point here being that

1602
01:21:30,350 --> 01:21:35,310
hey, consciousness is 1 dynamic.
It evolved a long time ago, long

1603
01:21:35,310 --> 01:21:38,750
before humans walked the earth.
Consciousness was widespread.

1604
01:21:39,150 --> 01:21:40,830
Fish.
Fish were the first conscious

1605
01:21:40,830 --> 01:21:46,960
beings at least 1/2 billion
years ago and insects are the

1606
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:48,760
most complicated minds that are
not conscious.

1607
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:50,760
Insects are not conscious.
We know this because they do not

1608
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,800
have resonant dynamics.
If a creature does not have

1609
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,600
resonant dynamics, it is not
conscious.

1610
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:56,600
Insects do not have resonance
dynamics.

1611
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:59,240
Fish do.
So consciousness is old.

1612
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:01,240
It is not new.
Our consciousness.

1613
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:05,320
Self consciousness is new.
It's probably we know Homo

1614
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,000
erectus and Neanderthal had fire
and they had art.

1615
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:10,960
To me this suggests they were
conscious.

1616
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:12,890
These were super minds being
formed.

1617
01:22:13,250 --> 01:22:15,090
To have a super mind, you need
to get the thinking elements

1618
01:22:15,290 --> 01:22:19,170
together.
The first neuron minds were like

1619
01:22:19,170 --> 01:22:21,490
amoebas.
Amoebas form super minds.

1620
01:22:21,490 --> 01:22:24,890
Amoebas come together to form a
super Organism of amoebas coming

1621
01:22:24,890 --> 01:22:26,850
together.
The same thing had to happen

1622
01:22:26,850 --> 01:22:28,690
with humans.
To form A, you just had to get

1623
01:22:28,690 --> 01:22:31,730
the humans physically together.
Campfires was a piece of that.

1624
01:22:31,890 --> 01:22:34,410
It got all the humans to sit in
the same place and look in the

1625
01:22:34,410 --> 01:22:36,850
same direction, maybe tell
stories, share the mind.

1626
01:22:36,850 --> 01:22:38,970
Same with art.
Art got all the humans in the

1627
01:22:38,970 --> 01:22:42,090
same cave looking at the same
thing, having shared attention.

1628
01:22:42,250 --> 01:22:45,930
You need shared attention to
build language to have a super

1629
01:22:45,930 --> 01:22:49,490
mind.
So there appears to be things

1630
01:22:49,490 --> 01:22:52,050
like this at higher levels,
getting the Super minds to work

1631
01:22:52,050 --> 01:22:54,920
together.
What we exchange as humans

1632
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,600
within the Super minor ideas,
it's language, words, but we're

1633
01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,320
exchanging idea, we're
exchanging quality.

1634
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:04,000
I imagine at the next level when
we have super minds integrated,

1635
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:05,560
melted together, they're
probably going to exchange

1636
01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:10,160
ideologies like whole systems, a
philosophy for for living and

1637
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,840
acting, I imagine.
But, you know, I don't really

1638
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:15,360
know.
When you think about super minds

1639
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,960
in general and moving forward
from from let's say our super

1640
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,660
minds to.
To artificial intelligence?

1641
01:23:20,820 --> 01:23:22,740
What?
How do you think it could

1642
01:23:22,740 --> 01:23:25,060
possibly go further with this
journey?

1643
01:23:25,460 --> 01:23:27,460
Where do you think it's headed?
Do you think that would be the

1644
01:23:27,460 --> 01:23:31,860
main step?
First, let me say a lot of

1645
01:23:31,860 --> 01:23:36,100
people are scared about
artificial intelligence taking

1646
01:23:36,100 --> 01:23:37,860
over.
There's a very real threat to

1647
01:23:37,860 --> 01:23:42,060
creators, the the, the
screenwriters and actors and

1648
01:23:42,060 --> 01:23:44,580
designers, all the artists that
are scared about the working

1649
01:23:44,580 --> 01:23:45,700
steel.
That's very real.

1650
01:23:46,260 --> 01:23:49,160
But that's a legal issue that
that that's a that's just the

1651
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,480
same plagiarism that's always
existed.

1652
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:53,840
When photographers started
taking pictures, artists,

1653
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,480
painters got very, you know,
upset about this too.

1654
01:23:56,480 --> 01:24:00,480
And when sampling and digital
music came out the the the old

1655
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:04,200
analog record producers got
upset too.

1656
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,080
So.
That's just a new form of

1657
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,920
plagiarism that needs to be
resolved to resolve the very

1658
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:10,520
real threat that needs to be
attended to.

1659
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,840
But the the no.
A I that exists on Earth right

1660
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:19,220
now is of any threat of taking
over or becoming a singularity.

1661
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:21,260
I know you hear this.
It's easy to explain why.

1662
01:24:21,620 --> 01:24:24,300
They're all digital.
They're not dynamic.

1663
01:24:24,740 --> 01:24:29,260
They're just extensions of us.
They're at the same level as

1664
01:24:29,260 --> 01:24:32,300
human minds.
They are part of the supermind.

1665
01:24:32,540 --> 01:24:37,340
This AI is not creating a new
layer, it's just fleshing out

1666
01:24:37,580 --> 01:24:41,070
our layer.
It's like adding new kinds of

1667
01:24:41,070 --> 01:24:43,790
neurons, or maybe just new kinds
of cells in our brain.

1668
01:24:43,790 --> 01:24:46,230
We have like myelin sheath.
We have all kinds of we've

1669
01:24:46,230 --> 01:24:50,030
astrocytes, We have all kinds of
other supporting stuff in our

1670
01:24:50,030 --> 01:24:53,150
brain that indirectly help.
Thinking and improve Thinking a

1671
01:24:53,150 --> 01:24:55,150
I is like that is an extension
of us.

1672
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:59,910
It's not something new what we
should be afraid of, but

1673
01:24:59,910 --> 01:25:02,030
fortunately we should be afraid
of it.

1674
01:25:02,030 --> 01:25:06,230
But it's also.
What will generate new levels of

1675
01:25:06,230 --> 01:25:08,350
thinking?
Hyper Minds, maybe.

1676
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:12,190
Ultra Minds.
A new kind of thing is analog A

1677
01:25:12,190 --> 01:25:13,830
I.
So nobody's building analog.

1678
01:25:13,830 --> 01:25:17,790
A I Our minds are a I.
Dynamic systems are analog.

1679
01:25:17,830 --> 01:25:20,110
Our minds are not digital.
Our minds are not information

1680
01:25:20,110 --> 01:25:22,630
system.
These Digital A I.

1681
01:25:22,630 --> 01:25:25,390
They are ultimately things.
They're machines.

1682
01:25:25,510 --> 01:25:27,910
They're zeros and ones.
They're very easy to hack.

1683
01:25:28,230 --> 01:25:31,150
They're not robust in the least.
They're not anything to be

1684
01:25:31,150 --> 01:25:33,470
afraid of.
They are not generating novel

1685
01:25:33,470 --> 01:25:35,830
stuff.
I know some people can arrange

1686
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:38,070
an AI so it looks like it's
generating novel stuff, but it's

1687
01:25:38,070 --> 01:25:41,750
just it's not doing it because
the reason that we are creative,

1688
01:25:42,190 --> 01:25:45,070
the reason humans are creative,
is our minds are not digital,

1689
01:25:45,190 --> 01:25:47,750
They're analog.
The way we process things and

1690
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:51,050
generate ideas is wholly
different, fundamentally,

1691
01:25:51,050 --> 01:25:54,810
physically different, than
what's going on in digital AI.

1692
01:25:54,810 --> 01:25:58,010
So digital AI is going to do
some impressive stuff.

1693
01:25:58,290 --> 01:26:01,530
I'm not knocking what they will
be able to do and steal and

1694
01:26:01,530 --> 01:26:05,090
imitate all that's true.
But they're not going to write a

1695
01:26:05,090 --> 01:26:07,810
great novel.
You know, they're going to, they

1696
01:26:07,810 --> 01:26:09,690
can make a song that sounds like
Bach.

1697
01:26:10,010 --> 01:26:12,330
They're not going to invent a
new genre of music that people

1698
01:26:12,330 --> 01:26:13,850
are going to love.
They're not going to invent rap

1699
01:26:13,850 --> 01:26:18,700
music, you know, out of thin air
the way actual humans did.

1700
01:26:18,900 --> 01:26:21,900
To do that, you need analog.
A I You need analog from the

1701
01:26:21,900 --> 01:26:24,420
bottom.
This is how our minds evolve,

1702
01:26:24,540 --> 01:26:28,180
Molecule minds, the simplest
minds, they are analog and they

1703
01:26:28,180 --> 01:26:32,260
never stop being analog.
Our minds, human minds, we

1704
01:26:32,260 --> 01:26:34,900
create digital thinking out of
dynamic systems.

1705
01:26:34,900 --> 01:26:36,020
This is one of the coolest
things.

1706
01:26:36,020 --> 01:26:38,660
One of the first things I
learned under Steve Roseberg and

1707
01:26:38,660 --> 01:26:41,140
GAIL Carpenter, and my first
year as a student with them, is

1708
01:26:41,140 --> 01:26:46,380
how to create dynamic systems,
activity that creates digital

1709
01:26:46,380 --> 01:26:48,880
knowledge.
It's actually activity.

1710
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:52,560
It's like ocean currents, but
the ocean currents produce the

1711
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,280
semblance of zeros and ones.
It's not really zero ones, but

1712
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:58,760
it functions as needed as zeros
and ones.

1713
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:02,400
And that's how our mind works.
And that's how analog A I will

1714
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:05,680
work one day.
So analog A I will be something

1715
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:08,120
we should be scared of because
they will think for themselves.

1716
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:09,760
They will create their own kinds
of consciousness.

1717
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:12,240
They'll want their own things.
They'll invent their own things

1718
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:14,360
to want.
They will be like other people

1719
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:18,560
then, and it will be like humans
and Neanderthals probably.

1720
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:20,800
We will work together, but who
knows?

1721
01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:23,280
They don't exist.
So I don't even wanna speculate

1722
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:25,560
on what will happen once we get
analog AI.

1723
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:29,440
When you think about analog AI,
let's say if you take a digital

1724
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:33,960
system that functions digitally
placed in one spot, does not

1725
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,600
embody an environment and sort
of navigate through this system.

1726
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:39,790
But what if you're able to?
Set up a system like that and

1727
01:27:39,790 --> 01:27:43,510
then just transfer the digital
system into that and allow it to

1728
01:27:43,510 --> 01:27:44,630
sort of navigate through this
process.

1729
01:27:44,630 --> 01:27:48,190
Do you think that would sort of
transition into a conscious mind

1730
01:27:48,190 --> 01:27:51,790
at that point, or does it
develop from an analog system,

1731
01:27:51,790 --> 01:27:56,790
from the bases, Yes.
And here's what's so important

1732
01:27:56,790 --> 01:28:00,990
to understand is that look at
molecule minds, Bacteria,

1733
01:28:00,990 --> 01:28:05,780
Archaea, protozoa.
Their thinking elements are non

1734
01:28:05,780 --> 01:28:07,940
thinking elements.
They're individual molecules

1735
01:28:07,940 --> 01:28:10,700
that have no purpose.
It is the configuration of

1736
01:28:10,700 --> 01:28:16,700
molecules that creates purpose.
But this is purpose in at the

1737
01:28:16,700 --> 01:28:21,020
lowest level of physical reality
it is rearranging atoms,

1738
01:28:21,340 --> 01:28:26,780
molecules to be purposeful at
the level it's purposeful in its

1739
01:28:27,060 --> 01:28:29,980
physical.
Being these digital systems are

1740
01:28:30,100 --> 01:28:32,060
abstract.
They're zeros and ones.

1741
01:28:32,620 --> 01:28:35,700
They're a representation of
something, but they're not the

1742
01:28:35,700 --> 01:28:38,060
something.
A bacteria is the something.

1743
01:28:38,140 --> 01:28:42,420
When a bacteria is thinking,
it's actual physical molecules

1744
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:46,220
moving around, changing in
physical reality.

1745
01:28:46,500 --> 01:28:48,540
They're embodying the
experience.

1746
01:28:48,780 --> 01:28:51,540
This is why consciousness
confuses people.

1747
01:28:51,860 --> 01:28:56,300
Consciousness is rooted in this
physical activity of molecules.

1748
01:28:56,940 --> 01:29:00,900
It's rooted.
In Quantum Activity, digital

1749
01:29:00,900 --> 01:29:02,900
stuff, it abstracts all that
out.

1750
01:29:02,900 --> 01:29:05,700
It's not connected to the real
world in any meaningful way.

1751
01:29:06,340 --> 01:29:09,380
Yeah, you can have inputs, but
these inputs are immediately

1752
01:29:09,380 --> 01:29:11,940
abstracted, the inputs to us,
like into our eyes.

1753
01:29:11,940 --> 01:29:14,500
It's changing molecules in our
retina, we have our retina.

1754
01:29:14,700 --> 01:29:17,420
The retina's physically moving
around, we get tired.

1755
01:29:17,420 --> 01:29:19,420
The retina changes.
The bright light changes.

1756
01:29:19,420 --> 01:29:23,040
Our retina gets over time at
every aspect of our mind.

1757
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,560
There's physical things that are
connected with the world.

1758
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:29,280
Right now our bodies are
reacting to quantum events,

1759
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:31,880
trillions, quadrillions,
quintillions of quantum events.

1760
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,880
Every microsecond our body is
reacting to it.

1761
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:39,840
Part of that the intex calls it
mind seed that these quantum

1762
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,920
events that they call chaotica.
But this constant events are

1763
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:45,520
generating thoughts.
You have to be part of the mind

1764
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,920
seed.
Digital A I is not part of Mind

1765
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:48,800
seed.
It's an abstraction.

1766
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:50,840
It's like a book.
We don't have to be afraid of

1767
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:52,840
books.
One day taking over the world,

1768
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,200
unplug the A I and it's and it's
done.

1769
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:57,800
You know?
Yeah, you can make an A I that

1770
01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:01,440
hunts energy sources, but it
hunts energy sources under

1771
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:02,680
there.
It's not.

1772
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:04,880
We actually take in the physical
world.

1773
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:05,600
We eat.
We can.

1774
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,680
I can grab things around me and
shove them in my mouth and

1775
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:11,720
they'll turn into more mind and
more energy that that's not how

1776
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,760
machines are and and digital
machines are never going to, you

1777
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:18,200
know, be out there hunting new
forms of of food and creating

1778
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:19,400
new forms of food for
themselves.

1779
01:30:19,930 --> 01:30:22,930
Yeah, Do you Do you find that
Ogi, when when you're approached

1780
01:30:22,930 --> 01:30:26,130
maybe, I think I watched your
conversation with Robert on

1781
01:30:26,130 --> 01:30:28,130
Closer to Truth.
Do you find when when

1782
01:30:28,130 --> 01:30:31,370
philosophers try and dissect
your theory of consciousness

1783
01:30:31,650 --> 01:30:33,410
that you get tired of these
arguments?

1784
01:30:33,410 --> 01:30:36,050
When you get tired of these
arguments like idealism or

1785
01:30:36,050 --> 01:30:39,410
panpsychism and these various
other fields, how do you feel

1786
01:30:39,410 --> 01:30:41,850
when people approach you with
those different theories of

1787
01:30:41,850 --> 01:30:43,650
consciousness?
From a philosophical

1788
01:30:43,650 --> 01:30:48,370
perspective, consciousness is
terrifically important.

1789
01:30:48,370 --> 01:30:50,610
It's terrifically vital and it's
hard.

1790
01:30:51,170 --> 01:30:54,130
It's big.
I never knock anybody for how

1791
01:30:54,130 --> 01:30:56,250
they approach consciousness.
It's difficult.

1792
01:30:57,210 --> 01:31:00,890
Great minds have died on on
consciousness.

1793
01:31:02,810 --> 01:31:04,890
Centuries of people have tried
to crack this.

1794
01:31:05,250 --> 01:31:08,770
So the fact that you know people
have theories that are wrong.

1795
01:31:09,330 --> 01:31:12,800
They're just continuing a long
tradition and they should.

1796
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,840
I I mean the only way to to
understand it is to wrestle with

1797
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:17,960
it and grapple with it.
You're going to have bad ideas.

1798
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:20,760
Most of my ideas about
consciousness for most of my

1799
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:22,280
life as I was trying to figure,
I went wrong.

1800
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:25,200
You know, I I I started out, you
know when when I was first

1801
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,120
contacted by Intex, I thought we
had souls.

1802
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:30,280
You know, I remember I thought
we had souls attached to us at

1803
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:33,000
birth and I was confused about
whether animals had souls.

1804
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,120
And I was stumped about a
Siamese twins.

1805
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:36,160
I was like, do they have two
souls?

1806
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:38,000
Do they have one soul?
What if their brain are

1807
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,430
connected?
Is that too like these were the

1808
01:31:40,430 --> 01:31:44,190
kinds of challenges.
I started out with myself, so I

1809
01:31:44,190 --> 01:31:45,750
I don't knock anybody.
It's hard.

1810
01:31:46,270 --> 01:31:49,470
And the sad truth of it, I don't
know if it's sad.

1811
01:31:49,550 --> 01:31:53,710
The truth of it is you need to
know some math, some complicated

1812
01:31:53,710 --> 01:31:55,430
math.
If you want to understand

1813
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:58,510
gravity and space-time, you need
to know some math to understand

1814
01:31:58,510 --> 01:32:01,030
relativity.
It's not impossible, but it does

1815
01:32:01,030 --> 01:32:04,430
take some effort.
Philosophers don't don't use

1816
01:32:04,430 --> 01:32:05,790
math.
Dan did it.

1817
01:32:06,970 --> 01:32:09,290
I I imagine he's still
considered the number one voice

1818
01:32:09,290 --> 01:32:12,130
and on on consciousness even
today.

1819
01:32:12,130 --> 01:32:14,410
I I I don't know, I can't
evaluate that.

1820
01:32:14,410 --> 01:32:17,490
But certainly in the 90s he was
the most prominent voice.

1821
01:32:17,490 --> 01:32:20,130
If you talk to most academics
about consciousness, they they

1822
01:32:20,130 --> 01:32:22,210
name him, he doesn't know any
damn math.

1823
01:32:23,130 --> 01:32:26,730
He was exposed to Steve
Grossberg's math in the 90s,

1824
01:32:27,090 --> 01:32:29,490
early 90s, before he ever real
consciousness explained.

1825
01:32:30,130 --> 01:32:34,480
Steve Grosberg explained to him
that filling in is a real thing,

1826
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:37,040
this idea that even if you're
not directly looking at it, that

1827
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,680
your mind is like if you're
looking at a blank wall, let's

1828
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:42,040
see, you're looking at a red
wall, that you're not actually

1829
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:44,160
seeing all the wall, your molts
filling in the red.

1830
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:49,560
And And Steve showed Dan then at
the math and he went and

1831
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:51,320
published the book and said
there's no filling in anyway

1832
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:54,280
because of philosophy.
So here's a guy that actually

1833
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:56,360
showed him physically and
mathematically how filling in

1834
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:58,480
works.
And he just went on and said his

1835
01:32:58,480 --> 01:33:01,120
philosophical intuition told him
that that that there can't be

1836
01:33:01,480 --> 01:33:02,760
filling in, that it's just
silly.

1837
01:33:03,170 --> 01:33:05,930
Like philosophers didn't figure
out the theory of relativity,

1838
01:33:06,250 --> 01:33:08,010
philosophers didn't figure out
gravity.

1839
01:33:08,010 --> 01:33:10,010
Newton worked through that
stuff.

1840
01:33:10,930 --> 01:33:13,050
Einstein worked through that
stuff mathematically and

1841
01:33:13,050 --> 01:33:14,290
physically.
That's the only way to do it.

1842
01:33:14,290 --> 01:33:17,770
If you're not deep down and the
physical nature of what's

1843
01:33:17,770 --> 01:33:19,810
happening in the brain, if
you're trying to do it

1844
01:33:19,810 --> 01:33:23,950
abstractly, like, well, people
think and have experiences, but

1845
01:33:23,950 --> 01:33:25,430
it's made of matter, how can
that be?

1846
01:33:25,430 --> 01:33:26,910
It's a hard brother.
Like, if that's what you're

1847
01:33:26,910 --> 01:33:29,510
doing, you're not investing even
the slightest effort and

1848
01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:32,630
understanding the subject.
The brain is ridiculously

1849
01:33:32,630 --> 01:33:34,350
complicated.
The math is ridiculously

1850
01:33:34,630 --> 01:33:36,510
complicated.
If you want to figure it out,

1851
01:33:36,510 --> 01:33:37,830
you got to immerse yourself in
it.

1852
01:33:38,150 --> 01:33:41,470
Be humble.
Don't think that the simple, the

1853
01:33:41,470 --> 01:33:45,070
Super simple idea that you came
up with without any effort you

1854
01:33:45,070 --> 01:33:47,520
know is going to be the answer.
Yeah.

1855
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:50,400
Look, I firmly agree with that.
I mean you and Sy often talk

1856
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:53,360
about this hierarchy and this,
this anthropocentric view that

1857
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:55,240
humans tend to have and the way
we sort of put ourselves on

1858
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:58,200
these pedestals and and give
ourselves.

1859
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:00,760
Does Ian vital now in a new
sense with consciousness?

1860
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:04,000
And I I completely agree we tend
to do that and a lot of the time

1861
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,200
we need people like Copernicus
to take us out of the center of

1862
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:08,960
the universe or we need someone
like Don to just show us that

1863
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,040
we're not at top of this food
chain that we.

1864
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:14,080
But then what do you think about
certain people who do take a

1865
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:16,770
very scientific?
Perspective and look at the

1866
01:34:16,770 --> 01:34:18,010
math.
Look at the neuroscience, look

1867
01:34:18,010 --> 01:34:19,850
at the physics.
Someone like Donald Hoffman for

1868
01:34:19,850 --> 01:34:22,570
example, who looks at the
evolutionary basis of

1869
01:34:22,570 --> 01:34:24,970
consciousness, fitness, payoffs
and the way we perceive reality.

1870
01:34:24,970 --> 01:34:27,450
And then comes to this
conclusion that we don't see

1871
01:34:27,450 --> 01:34:31,370
reality for what it is at all
based on the mathematics, based

1872
01:34:31,370 --> 01:34:34,090
on the physics.
And then how do you view someone

1873
01:34:34,090 --> 01:34:37,010
who says that and then takes it
further by saying in fact

1874
01:34:37,010 --> 01:34:42,370
consciousness is the fundamental
reality and physics is produced

1875
01:34:42,370 --> 01:34:47,580
from consciousness?
You don't get you don't buy I I

1876
01:34:47,660 --> 01:34:51,620
I have to you know I'd rather
read it to to do it justice.

1877
01:34:51,620 --> 01:34:54,820
I I hate you know not do
something where maybe I have the

1878
01:34:54,820 --> 01:34:59,860
wrong understanding of it, but.
I can't address the interaction

1879
01:34:59,860 --> 01:35:02,500
of of physics and mind, the
interaction of the way of matter

1880
01:35:03,260 --> 01:35:06,780
and the way of mind and they
feed into each other.

1881
01:35:06,780 --> 01:35:10,580
One's not, you know, conscious
is definitely not the ultimate

1882
01:35:10,780 --> 01:35:15,120
reality.
It's just consciousness is

1883
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:18,200
physical dynamics on the 3rd
rung of the ladder of purpose.

1884
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:21,920
Again, molecule minds.
We can describe the dynamics,

1885
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:24,160
the physical activity inside
individual cells, inside

1886
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:27,400
individual neurons, very well,
completely.

1887
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:29,320
In some cases, like in certain
Archaea, we can describe

1888
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:33,120
everything that's happening
perfectly well, so there's no

1889
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:35,440
mystery when you put it together
with the neuron minds we can

1890
01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:37,760
describe.
There are organisms where we've

1891
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:40,720
worked out all the neurons in
the circuit and and and how it

1892
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:44,310
all functions and it keeps
going.

1893
01:35:44,590 --> 01:35:48,870
So consciousness is just the
physical activity on the third

1894
01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:51,030
level.
Now we got a fourth level self

1895
01:35:51,030 --> 01:35:53,990
consciousness.
That's new activity.

1896
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:57,190
It uses the same matter, it's
different dynamics.

1897
01:35:57,310 --> 01:36:00,070
This is what's so hard.
People inevitably end up

1898
01:36:00,070 --> 01:36:03,150
treating consciousness as a
thing like this view that I

1899
01:36:03,150 --> 01:36:05,150
might might have a wrong
understanding of of Hoffman's

1900
01:36:05,190 --> 01:36:08,470
theory based on what you said,
but the idea that consciousness

1901
01:36:08,510 --> 01:36:13,110
is the interface to reality,
like, I mean that's there's a

1902
01:36:13,110 --> 01:36:15,630
sense, which is true, but that's
not, that's not the right kind

1903
01:36:15,630 --> 01:36:18,310
of intuition, that's not going
to lead you to the right places.

1904
01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:20,150
You need to think of
consciousness as one level of

1905
01:36:20,150 --> 01:36:23,630
activity.
Keep in mind all these Why are

1906
01:36:23,990 --> 01:36:27,230
there all these levels of minds?
Why is there this ladder

1907
01:36:27,230 --> 01:36:29,270
purpose?
What does each new level get

1908
01:36:29,270 --> 01:36:33,030
you?
It always takes an increased

1909
01:36:33,030 --> 01:36:37,510
number of perspectives on
reality and unites it to give a

1910
01:36:37,510 --> 01:36:40,030
broader, richer, more collective
reality.

1911
01:36:40,230 --> 01:36:46,570
So at first in bacteria molecule
mines, they're just their scope

1912
01:36:46,570 --> 01:36:50,690
of reality is tiny, you know,
microns, millimeters.

1913
01:36:51,410 --> 01:36:53,330
I think, you know, bacteria
travel like a, you know, a

1914
01:36:53,330 --> 01:36:55,130
couple centimeters or something
like that.

1915
01:36:56,530 --> 01:37:02,610
And then Jelly a Bobby, they
have broader scope of reality

1916
01:37:02,610 --> 01:37:04,370
because their neurons are all
coming together.

1917
01:37:04,370 --> 01:37:06,010
Each of their neurons has a
different perspective.

1918
01:37:06,010 --> 01:37:08,730
They're able to assemble a
broader perspective and it just

1919
01:37:08,730 --> 01:37:11,760
keeps going.
It's look at individual

1920
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:25,080
consciousness.
But it's this collective that

1921
01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:28,080
unconsciously understands
reality.

1922
01:37:12,440 --> 01:37:13,720
That's not where you want to
focus.

1923
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:17,400
Think about you've got a whole
Society of conscious

1924
01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:19,000
individuals.
We each have our own

1925
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:20,960
perspective.
We each have our own ideas.

1926
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:29,040
We're each pursuing our own.
That's what a super mind's

1927
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:29,920
doing.
A super mind.

1928
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:31,880
You know, America making a
decision.

1929
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:33,880
Should we raise taxes or lower
taxes?

1930
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:36,960
Should we fight Russia?
Should we just send arms to

1931
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:38,880
Ukraine?
These are collective decisions.

1932
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:41,520
We have so many perspectives of
individual citizens that all

1933
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,000
contribute to the final decision
that will happen.

1934
01:37:45,240 --> 01:37:46,560
That's a better way of thinking
about it.

1935
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:50,400
Don't think of consciousness as
in itself some magical thing,

1936
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:53,120
like as soon as you start
getting lost in that, as opposed

1937
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:56,040
to thinking of it as dynamics
like ocean currents, think about

1938
01:37:56,040 --> 01:38:00,400
consciousness is just as
currents or tidal waves as

1939
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:02,520
something in motion.
That's the right way to think

1940
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:05,750
about it.
Not as the interface to reality

1941
01:38:05,790 --> 01:38:07,350
that that is going to set you on
the wrong path.

1942
01:38:07,550 --> 01:38:09,870
There's layers of consciousness
and the conscious layers

1943
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:13,750
interact.
You know our our ability to be

1944
01:38:13,750 --> 01:38:16,910
selfaware interacts with our
ability to be aware, which

1945
01:38:16,910 --> 01:38:19,510
interacts with neural circuits,
which when you're acts with our

1946
01:38:19,510 --> 01:38:21,790
individual molecules, all of
these, It's a hierarchy of

1947
01:38:21,790 --> 01:38:24,550
resonance as always.
And that latter purpose is

1948
01:38:24,550 --> 01:38:27,750
trying to build a new layer, a
new layer of resonance by

1949
01:38:27,790 --> 01:38:29,230
integrating.
It's always trying to go out

1950
01:38:29,230 --> 01:38:32,750
more broadly so it can
understand reality better, make

1951
01:38:32,750 --> 01:38:34,350
predictions about reality
better.

1952
01:38:34,350 --> 01:38:37,150
It never stops, just layer after
layer of consciousness.

1953
01:38:37,750 --> 01:38:39,990
So then how do you feel about
the fact that when we do

1954
01:38:40,150 --> 01:38:42,750
perceive reality, we have so
many limitations, heuristic

1955
01:38:42,870 --> 01:38:45,870
adaptations to the environment,
and we're not really in touch of

1956
01:38:45,870 --> 01:38:49,270
reality when when, when physics
tries to explain matter, we we

1957
01:38:49,270 --> 01:38:52,110
know that it's 99.9% empty
space, We don't really know what

1958
01:38:52,110 --> 01:38:54,910
it is.
Although I'm very much a

1959
01:38:54,910 --> 01:38:59,230
physicalist, my person myself, I
mean my view is I don't really

1960
01:38:59,510 --> 01:39:02,630
view consciousness as.
Be be all end on of existence.

1961
01:39:02,630 --> 01:39:05,150
But I do take a physicalist
account of reality, but for

1962
01:39:05,150 --> 01:39:06,950
those who do.
For the pan psychist, for the

1963
01:39:06,950 --> 01:39:10,310
idealist, for someone who claims
that everything is other

1964
01:39:10,310 --> 01:39:14,510
conscious or consciousness is
all there is and justified by

1965
01:39:14,510 --> 01:39:16,270
saying we don't understand what
matter is.

1966
01:39:16,510 --> 01:39:20,910
How do you approach someone?
Well, I mean, one easy thing is

1967
01:39:21,470 --> 01:39:25,350
I can find matter that nobody's
conscious of.

1968
01:39:25,470 --> 01:39:28,190
You know, there's matter out
there, purposeless activity

1969
01:39:28,190 --> 01:39:30,300
happening that nobody's aware
of.

1970
01:39:30,300 --> 01:39:33,100
So if the whole universe is
consciousness, then there

1971
01:39:33,100 --> 01:39:35,940
shouldn't be anything that's not
a part of consciousness.

1972
01:39:36,140 --> 01:39:39,420
I mean, This is why we can't.
You know, there's tangled

1973
01:39:39,420 --> 01:39:42,020
particles.
Tangled particles are particles

1974
01:39:42,020 --> 01:39:44,100
we're aware of, you know, and
there's untangled particles,

1975
01:39:44,100 --> 01:39:46,420
which means we don't know
anything about them, which means

1976
01:39:46,420 --> 01:39:47,940
they're not part of our
consciousness.

1977
01:39:47,940 --> 01:39:50,540
And we want this dynamic.
We want this, you know, tangled

1978
01:39:50,540 --> 01:39:52,220
versus untangled, aware versus
not aware.

1979
01:39:52,260 --> 01:39:56,340
It drives for all of this to
work a cosmetic of the work, you

1980
01:39:56,340 --> 01:39:58,830
need differences.
You know this idea that if

1981
01:39:58,830 --> 01:40:01,630
everything's one thing, that's
exactly what this fail safe

1982
01:40:01,630 --> 01:40:04,270
Supremes designed to block.
If everything's one thing, it

1983
01:40:04,270 --> 01:40:06,670
freezes up.
You want there to be different

1984
01:40:06,670 --> 01:40:07,630
things.
You want there to be things

1985
01:40:07,630 --> 01:40:10,070
competing that it could be this
or might be that.

1986
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:13,590
Like that's what that's what
causes the universe to unfold.

1987
01:40:13,590 --> 01:40:15,150
There needs to be differences,
you know.

1988
01:40:15,150 --> 01:40:18,350
It's the differences that lead
to change, lead to new ideas,

1989
01:40:18,350 --> 01:40:21,230
lead to new experiences.
So do you believe in that, the

1990
01:40:21,510 --> 01:40:25,150
philosophical approach of trying
to find that phenomenal?

1991
01:40:25,750 --> 01:40:29,350
What is it like?
Essence of consciousness is just

1992
01:40:29,350 --> 01:40:31,670
a dead end and it's something.
That Yeah, absolutely.

1993
01:40:33,070 --> 01:40:36,430
It's complexity, it's dynamic,
it's lots of elements, it's

1994
01:40:36,430 --> 01:40:41,470
hierarchical, you know, it's
lateral, it's lots of things

1995
01:40:41,470 --> 01:40:43,350
interacting.
It's collective systems.

1996
01:40:43,710 --> 01:40:46,030
That's it.
As soon as you're looking for

1997
01:40:46,030 --> 01:40:48,230
the essence, that's thing
thinking that's looking for

1998
01:40:48,230 --> 01:40:50,470
caloric, that's looking for Flo,
just long, that's looking for

1999
01:40:50,470 --> 01:40:52,550
Ilan vital.
Always a failure.

2000
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:55,640
You know, centuries of failure
with that sort of thinking.

2001
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:57,480
So you think we learned our
lesson.

2002
01:40:57,480 --> 01:41:01,200
But no, I the reason it's so
appealing is that now we

2003
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:02,840
understand how consciousness
works.

2004
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:06,320
It's resonance.
We resonate on things.

2005
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:10,240
Every conscious experience is a
thing, experience.

2006
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:15,320
We are aware of stuff.
We resonate on an apple, on the

2007
01:41:15,320 --> 01:41:17,440
redness of the apple, the
roundness of the apple.

2008
01:41:17,440 --> 01:41:20,240
The sweetness of the apple of
something is what we're

2009
01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:22,430
resonating on.
Our conscious brain is designed

2010
01:41:22,430 --> 01:41:24,910
to think about things.
So we have naturally.

2011
01:41:24,990 --> 01:41:27,310
Here's something new.
We thinkify it.

2012
01:41:27,870 --> 01:41:29,750
There must be a thing.
It must be caloric heat.

2013
01:41:30,310 --> 01:41:31,950
It must be some kind of liquid
life.

2014
01:41:32,350 --> 01:41:35,030
There must be some magical
substance in their

2015
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:37,270
consciousness.
We're going to dig down and find

2016
01:41:37,270 --> 01:41:41,910
the essence of consciousness.
Bad intuition, but thanks to.

2017
01:41:42,410 --> 01:41:44,850
This is why we have literature,
books, and science.

2018
01:41:44,930 --> 01:41:47,850
Where we talk to each other is
to learn this stuff, is to share

2019
01:41:47,850 --> 01:41:50,970
experiences and start to realize
where there are fallacies and

2020
01:41:50,970 --> 01:41:53,210
mistakes and errors and
confusions and that sort of

2021
01:41:53,210 --> 01:41:54,810
thing.
And now we can draw upon, you

2022
01:41:54,810 --> 01:41:57,970
know, what scientists have over
and over and over and over and

2023
01:41:57,970 --> 01:42:00,530
over again.
Look for the essence of stuff,

2024
01:42:00,530 --> 01:42:03,770
and it never works out.
And so we have a reason, a

2025
01:42:03,770 --> 01:42:06,290
priority reason to suspect that
looking for the essence of

2026
01:42:06,290 --> 01:42:08,050
consciousness is a is a losing
game.

2027
01:42:09,050 --> 01:42:11,800
But we don't need to.
We have a very good explanation.

2028
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:13,680
Steve Gross has worked out all
the math for it.

2029
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:16,800
It works great.
You can see how intuitive it is.

2030
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:18,920
It leads to new ideas very
naturally.

2031
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:23,800
Explains autism, explains pain,
explains language.

2032
01:42:23,960 --> 01:42:25,200
You know it leads to
self-awareness.

2033
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:28,280
It leads to this latter purpose.
You know we can understand how

2034
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:31,280
the minds of bacteria more
clearly by understanding how our

2035
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:33,600
consciousness works.
This is the great thing about

2036
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:34,600
it.
It integrates.

2037
01:42:35,410 --> 01:42:38,330
It integrates, You know, you've
got some good science when it

2038
01:42:38,330 --> 01:42:40,410
connects with things you've
never thought were connected

2039
01:42:40,410 --> 01:42:41,570
before.
And that's what this view of

2040
01:42:41,570 --> 01:42:43,090
consciousness does.
If you're looking for the

2041
01:42:43,290 --> 01:42:46,610
essence of consciousness, you're
pushing all the other stuff

2042
01:42:46,610 --> 01:42:48,650
away.
You're saying, OK, I don't care

2043
01:42:48,650 --> 01:42:50,650
about language.
That's something else.

2044
01:42:50,930 --> 01:42:53,130
I don't care about bacteria,
what they're doing, what does

2045
01:42:53,130 --> 01:42:55,650
that matter?
But it's only when you care

2046
01:42:55,650 --> 01:42:58,330
about all these things together,
holistically, you start to see

2047
01:42:58,330 --> 01:42:59,570
how consciousness fits with
them.

2048
01:42:59,650 --> 01:43:02,970
It's like a unit.
Again and again, that's what

2049
01:43:02,970 --> 01:43:06,090
happened with Ilan Vita.
We cracked it not by digging

2050
01:43:06,090 --> 01:43:08,930
deeper and deeper, but by
looking at it holistically.

2051
01:43:09,130 --> 01:43:12,010
Caloric, same thing.
We understood heat by looking at

2052
01:43:12,010 --> 01:43:15,090
it as a system collectively, not
trying to drill down into the

2053
01:43:15,090 --> 01:43:17,930
one reductionist thing.
It's funny.

2054
01:43:18,170 --> 01:43:21,090
Physicists are fond is so fond
of saying, like reduction is a

2055
01:43:21,090 --> 01:43:23,490
way.
And you know that all theories

2056
01:43:23,650 --> 01:43:26,170
that have worked a reductionist
except the heat.

2057
01:43:26,610 --> 01:43:29,450
Life combustion, Those are all
holistic theories.

2058
01:43:29,450 --> 01:43:31,690
They're not reductionist
theories, They're dynamic

2059
01:43:32,050 --> 01:43:34,050
theories.
So physicists even delude

2060
01:43:34,050 --> 01:43:36,930
themselves sometimes about their
own theories, about what they

2061
01:43:36,930 --> 01:43:38,170
are.
They're not reductionistic.

2062
01:43:38,410 --> 01:43:40,530
You know, the theory of heat.
It's not a reductionist theory.

2063
01:43:41,050 --> 01:43:43,210
I think another thing is, is
when you're actually reducing

2064
01:43:43,210 --> 01:43:45,250
certain things to their
component parts, sometimes

2065
01:43:45,250 --> 01:43:47,410
you're not really reducing it
and bringing it down in the

2066
01:43:47,410 --> 01:43:49,570
sense you're sort of
highlighting each component part

2067
01:43:49,570 --> 01:43:52,320
more.
Some bringing in the fact that

2068
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:55,120
we're subatomic particles
becoming sort of biology or

2069
01:43:55,120 --> 01:43:57,880
chemistry, biology moving into
Physiology.

2070
01:43:58,080 --> 01:44:00,920
It's it's just broadening the
story and creating so much more

2071
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,960
for this odd holistic theory of
consciousness in general.

2072
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:05,600
So.
So in a sense someone might

2073
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:08,160
claim that your theory is very
reductionist, but but in a sense

2074
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:12,720
it's not really reducing it,
it's more just sort of.

2075
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:16,440
It's holistic and it's dynamic.
I mean, so like take

2076
01:44:16,440 --> 01:44:20,040
consciousness itself, it's it's
not being reduced.

2077
01:44:20,610 --> 01:44:22,050
To like.
Here's the consciousness

2078
01:44:22,090 --> 01:44:24,770
elements.
It's a complicated dynamic

2079
01:44:24,770 --> 01:44:27,130
across many elements,
hierarchical.

2080
01:44:27,130 --> 01:44:28,570
You can't understand
consciousness without

2081
01:44:28,570 --> 01:44:32,610
understanding 3 layers of
hierarchical and related

2082
01:44:32,610 --> 01:44:34,290
dynamics.
You know, dynamics of a molecule

2083
01:44:34,290 --> 01:44:36,970
mind, embedded within the
dynamics of a neural circuit

2084
01:44:36,970 --> 01:44:39,890
embedded within the dynamics of
a module which is producing

2085
01:44:39,890 --> 01:44:41,490
consciousness through its
communication with other

2086
01:44:41,490 --> 01:44:43,090
modules.
It is all this.

2087
01:44:43,090 --> 01:44:46,410
It's a system like life, just
like life.

2088
01:44:46,530 --> 01:44:48,090
There's no Elon Vital.
There's not.

2089
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:51,080
It's not protoplasm.
It's not DNA.

2090
01:44:51,080 --> 01:44:54,240
There's not something that you
pointed to that is the secret of

2091
01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:56,680
life.
Life is the collective, this

2092
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:01,000
holistic activity, this holistic
system of many purposeful things

2093
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:03,400
is there.
Is there any other aspect of of

2094
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:05,720
Steven's work that really
impacted you to a point where

2095
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:09,400
you feel like, I mean This is
why you perceive this guys as as

2096
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:15,160
the greatest mind of our time?
It is that he has worked out the

2097
01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:18,750
math for so many different.
Parts of the mind at so many

2098
01:45:18,750 --> 01:45:23,430
different levels.
He worked out how language works

2099
01:45:23,430 --> 01:45:27,550
in the brain, how we process
phonemes, how we process visual

2100
01:45:27,550 --> 01:45:34,630
inputs, audio inputs, how the
response signal in individual

2101
01:45:34,630 --> 01:45:36,550
neurons.
He showed why it has to have a

2102
01:45:36,550 --> 01:45:39,550
sigmoid shape, which is what it
has, as opposed to a linear

2103
01:45:39,550 --> 01:45:42,030
shape or or or other shapes, you
know.

2104
01:45:42,030 --> 01:45:44,990
So he works out the math.
Down at the lowest level, like a

2105
01:45:44,990 --> 01:45:48,640
neural.
The the neural response function

2106
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:53,440
all the way up to language,
which is intermined dynamics.

2107
01:45:53,640 --> 01:45:57,280
He has math at all these levels
that all fit together it it's a

2108
01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:01,840
lot like the way you know.
Physics you can fit.

2109
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:05,080
Together the the the math of
electromagnetism with the math

2110
01:46:05,080 --> 01:46:09,160
of of of you know the.
Theory and strong theory and all

2111
01:46:09,160 --> 01:46:10,240
of this forms you know theory
of.

2112
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:12,920
Of particles and forces, you
know.

2113
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:17,480
So he did the same thing.
He united most parts of the mind

2114
01:46:17,480 --> 01:46:20,320
within a integrated mathematical
framework.

2115
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:26,160
It's a beautiful thing, but
really complicated math that you

2116
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:28,450
can't.
You can't borrow something else.

2117
01:46:28,450 --> 01:46:31,490
You can't learn relativity and
say, oh, it's just a version of

2118
01:46:31,490 --> 01:46:34,130
relativity or or Bayesian math.
You can't learn and say, oh, I

2119
01:46:34,170 --> 01:46:36,130
see it's just a subset of
Bayesian math.

2120
01:46:36,530 --> 01:46:38,490
No, no, no, no, no.
It's its own math.

2121
01:46:38,490 --> 01:46:41,050
It's the math of minds.
It's the math of purpose.

2122
01:46:41,370 --> 01:46:48,410
Let me say one other thing.
This is all so much I know about

2123
01:46:48,690 --> 01:46:52,410
the dynamics of purpose,
Evolution, evolutionary theory.

2124
01:46:52,410 --> 01:46:56,610
I told you when I was first.
Intex shared this with me.

2125
01:46:56,610 --> 01:46:59,690
I knew I needed a mathematical
framework for the mind, so I

2126
01:46:59,690 --> 01:47:02,010
started having the ideas about
the the dynamics.

2127
01:47:02,010 --> 01:47:03,970
But I needed math.
I didn't know how to put any of

2128
01:47:03,970 --> 01:47:07,570
this into math and that I could
share with other humans and

2129
01:47:07,570 --> 01:47:11,450
Intex but sharing with me the
dynamics but not like equations.

2130
01:47:11,450 --> 01:47:13,570
They they weren't communicating
equations so I didn't really

2131
01:47:13,570 --> 01:47:16,890
know how to to to talk about
this stuff.

2132
01:47:17,170 --> 01:47:20,730
So at first I looked into
evolutionary theory.

2133
01:47:20,730 --> 01:47:23,470
I thought because evolution.
Involve purpose.

2134
01:47:23,470 --> 01:47:26,110
And there was a little bit of
math and evolutionary theory,

2135
01:47:26,110 --> 01:47:28,470
and it just seemed math.
It was talking about

2136
01:47:28,470 --> 01:47:31,070
competition.
It was talking about purpose and

2137
01:47:31,070 --> 01:47:34,470
design and trajectories over
time, things that I was

2138
01:47:34,470 --> 01:47:36,710
interested in.
So I thought, OK, this is

2139
01:47:36,710 --> 01:47:37,830
probably going to be some math
here.

2140
01:47:37,830 --> 01:47:40,430
So that was the first
mathematical framework I was

2141
01:47:40,430 --> 01:47:42,550
looking at.
And I very quickly.

2142
01:47:42,750 --> 01:47:45,190
It wasn't just that I realized
evolutionary psychology.

2143
01:47:46,170 --> 01:47:48,970
Was misguided at a dead end,
which which I even more think

2144
01:47:49,050 --> 01:47:49,850
now.
I mean it is a dead end.

2145
01:47:49,850 --> 01:47:53,730
It didn't get anywhere.
But what I came to realize is I

2146
01:47:53,730 --> 01:47:56,690
thought scientists and
biologists had a wrong

2147
01:47:56,690 --> 01:48:01,450
understanding about evolution.
I think natural selection of

2148
01:48:01,610 --> 01:48:04,450
Darwinian evolution by natural
selection it exists.

2149
01:48:04,450 --> 01:48:07,610
It's real.
It's just a subset of the

2150
01:48:07,610 --> 01:48:11,090
dynamics of purpose and the
dynamics of evolution, and not

2151
01:48:11,090 --> 01:48:14,610
even the main one, most
evolution in the universe.

2152
01:48:15,050 --> 01:48:17,210
Is not evolution by natural
selection.

2153
01:48:17,650 --> 01:48:20,770
From here on.
Out all human evolution and we

2154
01:48:20,770 --> 01:48:22,210
are evolving, we're creating new
things.

2155
01:48:22,210 --> 01:48:26,570
The Internet is evolution is not
genetic, it's not by natural

2156
01:48:26,570 --> 01:48:29,450
selection, it's by other
dynamics of evolution, dynamics

2157
01:48:29,770 --> 01:48:32,970
of purpose.
So the way of mind is a broad

2158
01:48:32,970 --> 01:48:34,890
collection of classes of
purpose.

2159
01:48:35,010 --> 01:48:37,570
Mental dynamics, consciousness
are dynamics of purpose.

2160
01:48:37,570 --> 01:48:40,970
So is evolution by natural
selection, but it's very narrow

2161
01:48:41,210 --> 01:48:43,370
and limited, and it doesn't even
describe.

2162
01:48:43,740 --> 01:48:47,780
Actually genetic evolution.
It places too much emphasis on

2163
01:48:47,780 --> 01:48:52,060
the things on the genes.
Richard Dawkins wrote this book

2164
01:48:52,060 --> 01:48:55,260
called The Selfish Gene which
kind of summarize this view.

2165
01:48:55,260 --> 01:48:58,620
This thing view of evolution is
things saying like that the the

2166
01:48:58,620 --> 01:49:02,140
the main element for evolution
is the gene, the selfish gene.

2167
01:49:02,140 --> 01:49:03,700
By understanding the gene you
understand evolution.

2168
01:49:03,700 --> 01:49:06,420
No, no no.
Evolution is dynamics.

2169
01:49:06,420 --> 01:49:09,820
It's lots of things interacting,
not just the genes.

2170
01:49:10,300 --> 01:49:13,420
All kinds of levels of purpose.
Once you've got a mind, that

2171
01:49:13,420 --> 01:49:16,620
mind is controlling the
organisms activity.

2172
01:49:16,620 --> 01:49:20,500
That mind is doing more to shape
evolution than any gene is.

2173
01:49:20,940 --> 01:49:23,740
Our decisions are what to do
with our lives.

2174
01:49:23,740 --> 01:49:26,460
Our human decisions are going to
play a much bigger role than any

2175
01:49:26,460 --> 01:49:29,780
particular gene in their life.
To suggest that if you look at

2176
01:49:29,820 --> 01:49:33,100
you find this gene in your DNA
or this person's DNA and think

2177
01:49:33,100 --> 01:49:35,380
that that's going to help you
understand how their life will

2178
01:49:35,380 --> 01:49:37,680
unfold.
As opposed to understanding

2179
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:40,400
their psychology and how their
mind's going to unfold in

2180
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:41,640
situation.
Yeah, it's just silly.

2181
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:44,840
So I started to realize as I was
studying the evolution by

2182
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:49,800
evolutionary psychology that I
thought all of evolution theory

2183
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:52,800
biologist was wrong, was too
narrow, too limited.

2184
01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:57,080
It was ignoring the dynamics.
I thought mind.

2185
01:49:57,400 --> 01:49:59,760
It was really the story of mind
trying to unfold.

2186
01:49:59,960 --> 01:50:03,040
The body is just.
This extraneous part of the

2187
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:05,840
mind, the way to think about the
body is is is just an extension

2188
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:09,160
of the mind, not the way
biologists imagine is the body

2189
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:11,880
is evolving in the mind as part
of this this physical,

2190
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:15,440
physiological evolution.
No, it's the mind of all we see

2191
01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:17,280
that because now the mind is
continuing to evolve.

2192
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:20,120
It didn't stop.
It got to genes and it just.

2193
01:50:20,120 --> 01:50:23,480
Jumped out of.
Genes jumped right into into

2194
01:50:23,480 --> 01:50:25,480
words, into language, into
books.

2195
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:27,480
Books is shaping the evolution
of our minds.

2196
01:50:27,480 --> 01:50:29,240
And now it's the Internet, you
know.

2197
01:50:29,880 --> 01:50:32,230
One way you.
Can see that. 1.

2198
01:50:32,470 --> 01:50:34,870
Way you can see that?
Yes, exactly.

2199
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:37,310
Genes to memes.
And you can see this in human

2200
01:50:37,310 --> 01:50:38,710
sexuality.
Sexuality.

2201
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:41,350
Sai and I wrote a book about
sexuality.

2202
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:43,470
We wrote about the first
generation is.

2203
01:50:43,470 --> 01:50:45,470
It was called A Billion Wicked
Things, I think was.

2204
01:50:45,910 --> 01:50:47,310
A Billion Wicked Thoughts.
Yes.

2205
01:50:47,590 --> 01:50:49,830
First book by Saiga Nom and I,
Billion Wicked Thoughts.

2206
01:50:50,550 --> 01:50:52,910
And we looked at sexual behavior
on the Internet.

2207
01:50:52,910 --> 01:50:56,870
So we got massive.
We we got massive online data,

2208
01:50:56,870 --> 01:50:59,030
sets of online sexual behavior
searches.

2209
01:51:00,530 --> 01:51:03,050
Traffic to different websites.
We got credit card billing

2210
01:51:03,050 --> 01:51:04,730
statements.
We looked at erotic stories like

2211
01:51:04,730 --> 01:51:07,250
millions of erotic stories.
We we we classified them.

2212
01:51:07,810 --> 01:51:11,170
If there was data on people's
sexual behavior, then we got it.

2213
01:51:11,170 --> 01:51:14,130
Now, we didn't know this at the
time, but now we understand that

2214
01:51:14,410 --> 01:51:17,530
all that data was about the
first generation of people

2215
01:51:17,530 --> 01:51:20,090
coming on in in expressing their
sexuality.

2216
01:51:20,210 --> 01:51:23,610
We got to see raw human
sexuality as existed on the

2217
01:51:23,610 --> 01:51:25,810
planet.
When the Internet first

2218
01:51:25,810 --> 01:51:28,690
appeared, so we got to see
sexuality in China, in Russia

2219
01:51:28,690 --> 01:51:32,170
and Saudi Arabia, Brazil, all
across America, at least a

2220
01:51:32,170 --> 01:51:35,890
billion people's sexual behavior
we accumulated, we looked at it,

2221
01:51:36,210 --> 01:51:40,290
and it was a snapshot of human
sexual behavior in the raw as we

2222
01:51:41,130 --> 01:51:44,410
integrated over the Internet.
The problem is the Internet took

2223
01:51:44,410 --> 01:51:47,850
over and the sex we see on the
Internet now is completely

2224
01:51:47,850 --> 01:51:49,890
different.
It's been commercialized.

2225
01:51:50,210 --> 01:51:51,640
It's narrow.
The.

2226
01:51:52,440 --> 01:51:54,520
At first everybody was making
porn.

2227
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:57,280
There was all kinds of amateur
porn producers.

2228
01:51:57,640 --> 01:52:01,120
There was 10s of thousands of
commercial porn sites.

2229
01:52:01,440 --> 01:52:03,760
There was all kinds of people
writing erotic stories.

2230
01:52:04,240 --> 01:52:06,800
It was the Wild West and
incredibly diverse, and human

2231
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:09,600
sexuality was this beautiful,
diverse thing.

2232
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:11,960
Not anymore.
It's very narrow.

2233
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:16,400
All the porn you see now, tube
sites took over and then the

2234
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:19,670
tube sites got.
Brought out by multinational

2235
01:52:19,670 --> 01:52:23,430
conglomerates, so all the human
sexuality on the Internet now is

2236
01:52:23,430 --> 01:52:25,750
controlled by a few small
corporations.

2237
01:52:25,750 --> 01:52:27,750
They've narrowed the porn.
They don't want it to be

2238
01:52:27,750 --> 01:52:29,950
controversial.
They've also learned what gets

2239
01:52:29,950 --> 01:52:31,990
the most audiences for the
cheapest, just like any

2240
01:52:31,990 --> 01:52:34,590
business.
So now we see sex that's easy to

2241
01:52:34,590 --> 01:52:36,830
produce.
We don't see that rich variety

2242
01:52:36,830 --> 01:52:39,390
anymore.
So now all humans that are

2243
01:52:39,390 --> 01:52:42,310
learning about sexuality, we're
all learning about it through

2244
01:52:42,310 --> 01:52:43,950
the Internet.
That's what we interact with.

2245
01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:48,520
We're entering an ecology, an
ecosystem of memes that narrows

2246
01:52:48,520 --> 01:52:51,280
our sexuality, limits it.
It's kind of graying or

2247
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:52,760
homogenizing and making
everything vanilla.

2248
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:57,160
We're all moving towards the
same sexuality across the entire

2249
01:52:57,160 --> 01:52:58,800
planet.
You know, our kids and our

2250
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:01,040
grandkids are going to have
sexual interests, and sexual

2251
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:05,200
behaviors are strange to us that
we won't understand, just like

2252
01:53:05,200 --> 01:53:08,120
our sexuality is strange.
To people that lived a. 100

2253
01:53:08,120 --> 01:53:11,040
years ago, so the the, the, the
Super mind.

2254
01:53:11,550 --> 01:53:13,470
You know, this collective
dynamics that we're creating,

2255
01:53:13,470 --> 01:53:16,870
this needs, new technologies are
changing our sexuality, which

2256
01:53:16,870 --> 01:53:20,870
was viewed as very much the
domain of Darwinian natural

2257
01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:23,670
selection and genetics.
But you know, now we're pushing

2258
01:53:23,670 --> 01:53:27,230
into whole new kinds of changes
to our sexuality that are not

2259
01:53:27,230 --> 01:53:29,470
genes based.
If you had to apply that

2260
01:53:29,470 --> 01:53:32,350
analogous to us as human minds
in general and to the way the

2261
01:53:32,350 --> 01:53:35,070
Internet works, do you think
that's going to be a downfall to

2262
01:53:35,070 --> 01:53:37,710
us reaching a sort of a hyper
mind status or maybe that ultra

2263
01:53:37,710 --> 01:53:38,910
mind that you spoke about
earlier?

2264
01:53:39,110 --> 01:53:41,030
Do you think that the way
nothing so?

2265
01:53:41,410 --> 01:53:43,450
No, I I I think this is an
essential step.

2266
01:53:43,930 --> 01:53:45,930
We all got to get linked
together.

2267
01:53:46,050 --> 01:53:50,410
So this is how to look when it's
finally working, is that we'll

2268
01:53:50,450 --> 01:53:53,130
all be linked together, but
we'll be diverse.

2269
01:53:53,210 --> 01:53:57,010
Our individuality will be
respected and accepted, I might

2270
01:53:57,010 --> 01:54:00,570
say, and have different opinions
and values and beliefs than you.

2271
01:54:00,690 --> 01:54:02,930
Utterly different, you know,
opposite sides of the political

2272
01:54:02,930 --> 01:54:06,130
aisle.
And we must accept this, as this

2273
01:54:06,330 --> 01:54:10,330
is the basis for intelligence
and freedom and adaptiveness and

2274
01:54:10,330 --> 01:54:11,920
resilience.
This is what we see in the

2275
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:14,040
brain.
Our neurons are incredibly

2276
01:54:14,040 --> 01:54:16,160
diverse.
There's no two neurons that are

2277
01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:19,520
identical.
This is a basic design feature.

2278
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:24,120
The more advanced the high level
mind, the more advanced the

2279
01:54:24,120 --> 01:54:26,880
lower levels.
The human brain is the most

2280
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:30,240
advanced brain on the planet.
On every level we have the most

2281
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:34,080
sophisticated neurons on Earth,
the pyramidal neuron in our

2282
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:36,920
frontal cortex, which is in our
Y module.

2283
01:54:37,590 --> 01:54:38,950
The Y module determines our
feelings.

2284
01:54:38,950 --> 01:54:41,150
It determines why we should
choose this choice over that

2285
01:54:41,150 --> 01:54:43,670
choice, because this feels
better than that choice.

2286
01:54:43,950 --> 01:54:47,190
This is the most sophisticated
mind on Earth only found in

2287
01:54:47,510 --> 01:54:49,390
human minds.
Other animals have Y modules,

2288
01:54:49,390 --> 01:54:53,030
but they're much less powerful
and less complicated than ours.

2289
01:54:53,350 --> 01:54:57,670
So the higher you go, you get
higher by having all of your

2290
01:54:57,670 --> 01:55:00,910
levels be more sophisticated as
well.

2291
01:55:00,910 --> 01:55:04,230
So in America, I mean, America
is the most sophisticated super

2292
01:55:04,230 --> 01:55:06,410
mind on Earth.
At this moment, you know, who

2293
01:55:06,410 --> 01:55:10,490
knows if it retain that.
And it's because we were so

2294
01:55:10,490 --> 01:55:14,650
free, because we talk endlessly,
because we have this Internet

2295
01:55:14,650 --> 01:55:17,650
and that we're all sharing
everything on the Internet and

2296
01:55:17,650 --> 01:55:20,490
we're sharing our sexuality.
The fact that our sexuality is

2297
01:55:20,490 --> 01:55:23,610
all converging might facilitate
hyperminds.

2298
01:55:23,610 --> 01:55:27,210
More probably, you know like
that might be one hang up is

2299
01:55:27,210 --> 01:55:30,730
that it might be very hard.
You can see all the politics and

2300
01:55:30,730 --> 01:55:33,970
drama that emerges from just
homosexuals.

2301
01:55:34,370 --> 01:55:36,650
And heterosexuals in the same
society, we're working

2302
01:55:36,650 --> 01:55:39,290
throughout their way further
along than we were 50 years ago.

2303
01:55:39,290 --> 01:55:43,970
Obviously we got a ways to go.
But one day, you know, hopefully

2304
01:55:44,530 --> 01:55:47,370
we'll have a system where all of
our individuality is respected,

2305
01:55:47,370 --> 01:55:50,010
but we're all bound together.
That's how the brain works.

2306
01:55:50,410 --> 01:55:52,570
That's how even brains of
insects work.

2307
01:55:53,010 --> 01:55:56,250
And even down at the bacteria,
it's diverse elements that are

2308
01:55:56,370 --> 01:55:59,450
each given a voice.
They each have the same

2309
01:55:59,850 --> 01:56:02,250
authority and power.
No neuron is more important than

2310
01:56:02,250 --> 01:56:03,530
any other neuron, but we
respect.

2311
01:56:04,020 --> 01:56:07,100
Every neuron's individuality,
every neuron has a chance of

2312
01:56:07,100 --> 01:56:11,380
making a contribution, and the
weird neurons are as useful as

2313
01:56:11,380 --> 01:56:13,660
the vanilla neurons.
Is is how it works out, and

2314
01:56:13,660 --> 01:56:16,340
that's what we're moving to it.
So having us all bound together

2315
01:56:16,700 --> 01:56:19,420
through the Internet, this is a
necessary precursor.

2316
01:56:19,420 --> 01:56:23,180
I mean, there's all this fight
and drama and friction because

2317
01:56:23,340 --> 01:56:25,620
we're seeing other people who
are different from us and it's a

2318
01:56:25,620 --> 01:56:27,980
new experience.
You know, it's like we see

2319
01:56:27,980 --> 01:56:31,220
voices that are radically
different from our beliefs and

2320
01:56:31,220 --> 01:56:34,580
we just don't have the
experience yet and the lessons

2321
01:56:34,580 --> 01:56:37,500
in school and the social norms
yet to adapt.

2322
01:56:37,500 --> 01:56:40,500
We're fighting, but you know,
we'll work through this.

2323
01:56:41,060 --> 01:56:43,460
Or we won't and we'll have
climate collapse.

2324
01:56:44,460 --> 01:56:47,740
I mean on that you, I mean this
diversity, this sheer diversity.

2325
01:56:47,740 --> 01:56:50,460
When you think about the intakes
and these extraterrestrials, you

2326
01:56:50,460 --> 01:56:51,820
label these as
extraterrestrials.

2327
01:56:51,820 --> 01:56:53,780
Did.
Do you feel that these came from

2328
01:56:53,780 --> 01:56:56,780
a completely different set of
organisms in another?

2329
01:56:56,900 --> 01:56:59,580
In another sphere, Galaxy,
perhaps part of the universe?

2330
01:57:00,340 --> 01:57:03,460
Was it?
My understanding this is not

2331
01:57:03,460 --> 01:57:06,020
something I'm certain of, so I'm
presenting this is this is what

2332
01:57:06,100 --> 01:57:11,280
it seems like is that.
These the axiomized minds five

2333
01:57:11,280 --> 01:57:12,760
and three.
The ones that get to the the top

2334
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:15,720
level and can start to compete
for influence over over the

2335
01:57:15,720 --> 01:57:19,080
physical laws undergirding
reality that they're comprised

2336
01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:24,040
of many, many, many species that
evolved and came up across

2337
01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:26,920
universe, possibly multiple
universes too.

2338
01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:28,360
I I don't pretend to understand
that.

2339
01:57:28,360 --> 01:57:31,960
But what's always been conveyed
to me is it's lots of different

2340
01:57:32,200 --> 01:57:35,040
heritages, lots of different
lines of purpose.

2341
01:57:35,830 --> 01:57:37,590
That came together, which is
what we are too.

2342
01:57:37,590 --> 01:57:39,390
I mean, you know, there's the
East and the West, You know,

2343
01:57:39,390 --> 01:57:43,110
that Columbus and the Europeans
sailed and and discovered.

2344
01:57:43,110 --> 01:57:46,910
Obviously they didn't discover
and and found what they call the

2345
01:57:46,910 --> 01:57:49,430
New World.
But those were two lines of

2346
01:57:49,430 --> 01:57:52,590
evolutionary history of people
that were independent and then

2347
01:57:52,590 --> 01:57:54,510
came together.
So that even happened here.

2348
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:59,040
On Earth, I mean, there was many
kinds of humans we keep finding

2349
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:01,120
new kind.
It was Neanderthal erectus, it

2350
01:58:01,120 --> 01:58:04,280
was the Florenzas, the hobbits
on an island somewhere on

2351
01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:05,800
Indonesia.
I know there's even other

2352
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:08,040
devils.
Devozen, I think.

2353
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:10,480
I think there's also home in the
lady.

2354
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:13,760
So there you go.
In Africa, they, they keep

2355
01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:14,840
discovering.
So you would know more about

2356
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:17,080
this to me, but they keep
discovering new humans.

2357
01:58:17,200 --> 01:58:19,040
And a lot of these humans were
contemporaneous.

2358
01:58:19,480 --> 01:58:21,920
So they came together.
They're in us.

2359
01:58:21,920 --> 01:58:23,960
And if you look at our DNA, some
of these other species.

2360
01:58:24,460 --> 01:58:26,780
Merged into us.
So I I think it's a lot my

2361
01:58:26,780 --> 01:58:30,460
understanding is it's like that
that there's one day we may join

2362
01:58:30,460 --> 01:58:34,140
too we will ascend but you know
maybe we'll probably colonize

2363
01:58:34,140 --> 01:58:36,140
our solar system.
You know we'll we'll reach I

2364
01:58:36,140 --> 01:58:38,260
don't know an ultramine level.
You know super mines, combined

2365
01:58:38,540 --> 01:58:41,100
hyper mines, hyper mines
combined ultra mines probably

2366
01:58:41,100 --> 01:58:44,860
will have an ultra mine human
solar system and that maybe will

2367
01:58:44,860 --> 01:58:48,660
be we'll meet up with other
ultra mines and form alliances

2368
01:58:48,660 --> 01:58:51,660
and overtime merge is my
understanding and then we just

2369
01:58:51,660 --> 01:58:55,710
keep building and some of these.
Apparently this this they have

2370
01:58:55,710 --> 01:58:58,350
conveyed in in clear terms is
like you never know where your

2371
01:58:58,350 --> 01:59:01,630
ascension is going to end.
You might get to this ultramine

2372
01:59:01,630 --> 01:59:03,830
level and then that's you
compete against another

2373
01:59:03,830 --> 01:59:05,670
ultramine to lose and you're
wiped out and all its

2374
01:59:05,670 --> 01:59:09,230
constituent species then get get
wiped out too.

2375
01:59:09,230 --> 01:59:12,070
But it's a never ending growth.
You're trying to send the

2376
01:59:12,070 --> 01:59:13,550
latter.
Some get to the axiomize and

2377
01:59:13,550 --> 01:59:15,310
even the axiomize are not
eternal.

2378
01:59:16,030 --> 01:59:19,030
You know, all minds, all
dynamics are dynamic.

2379
01:59:19,030 --> 01:59:22,470
They have a start and the end
and again because you can't ever

2380
01:59:22,470 --> 01:59:24,870
have one.
Eternal, unknowing, omniscient

2381
01:59:24,870 --> 01:59:28,110
mind.
It's all designed so that new

2382
01:59:28,110 --> 01:59:30,470
life can form, new minds can
form.

2383
01:59:30,630 --> 01:59:33,070
Humans are going to have
different ideas than any other

2384
01:59:33,070 --> 01:59:35,510
creatures in the universe.
And hopefully we'll get our

2385
01:59:35,510 --> 01:59:39,270
chance to shine our light on the
universe and shine our ideas and

2386
01:59:39,270 --> 01:59:42,870
and and propose new ideas, our
artists and scientists and

2387
01:59:42,870 --> 01:59:45,430
creators.
There is human science, and it's

2388
01:59:45,430 --> 01:59:46,710
different than these other
sciences.

2389
01:59:47,110 --> 01:59:50,870
So here's a way of thinking
about the difference between art

2390
01:59:51,070 --> 01:59:53,540
and science.
And higher levels.

2391
01:59:54,020 --> 01:59:57,700
So art is dynamics within an
individual mind.

2392
01:59:58,260 --> 02:00:02,060
Art is mind to mind sharing.
I am sharing my individual

2393
02:00:02,060 --> 02:00:03,860
experience.
I'm writing a book.

2394
02:00:03,900 --> 02:00:06,620
I'm making a painting.
This is what life is like to me.

2395
02:00:06,620 --> 02:00:08,900
Here's some experience of mine
that I want to share with you

2396
02:00:09,100 --> 02:00:12,140
and you as another person.
Take that experience directly

2397
02:00:12,500 --> 02:00:14,700
and maybe it'll mean something
to you, maybe it won't, But it's

2398
02:00:14,700 --> 02:00:16,100
a direct mind to mind
experience.

2399
02:00:16,380 --> 02:00:19,620
That's art.
Science is our super mind

2400
02:00:19,860 --> 02:00:23,920
experience.
Science is articulating what our

2401
02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:26,760
experience of reality is like as
a superminor.

2402
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:30,360
This collective experience we
experience, electromagnetic

2403
02:00:30,360 --> 02:00:33,360
radiation that follows these
laws we experience equals M C

2404
02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:34,320
^2.
Now we've got the three

2405
02:00:34,320 --> 02:00:38,480
equations of consciousness.
This is, this is what our human

2406
02:00:38,480 --> 02:00:42,240
society has experienced, and
we're organizing it as best we

2407
02:00:42,240 --> 02:00:44,600
can.
Apparently, when we encounter

2408
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:48,000
other societies, civilizations
that have risen to another

2409
02:00:48,000 --> 02:00:50,950
level, their view of this will
be slightly different.

2410
02:00:50,950 --> 02:00:51,990
I mean, there'll be some
overlap.

2411
02:00:52,150 --> 02:00:54,870
We all remember The Big Bang.
All of us have.

2412
02:00:55,190 --> 02:00:58,390
The Big Bang is in the past for
all creatures, for all minds,

2413
02:00:58,390 --> 02:01:00,870
for all the action minds.
We all remember The Big Bang.

2414
02:01:01,110 --> 02:01:03,270
So we will have some
commonalities, but our overall

2415
02:01:03,270 --> 02:01:06,870
experiences, we might have
different perspectives on the

2416
02:01:06,870 --> 02:01:08,910
electromagnetic force than
others.

2417
02:01:09,070 --> 02:01:12,230
And then we'll share these and
together these will give us.

2418
02:01:12,270 --> 02:01:14,550
A whole new perspective above
science.

2419
02:01:15,150 --> 02:01:18,120
I call it blood magic entirely
for personal reasons.

2420
02:01:18,360 --> 02:01:21,040
This level of understanding,
that's above science.

2421
02:01:21,040 --> 02:01:23,360
So there's art, there's science,
there's blood magic.

2422
02:01:24,280 --> 02:01:27,560
But yes, so human science is
certainly figuring out reality

2423
02:01:27,560 --> 02:01:30,000
as humans are experiencing it,
But other creatures might

2424
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:32,160
experience the same reality
differently.

2425
02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:35,320
And one day we'll combine our
views with theirs and we'll

2426
02:01:35,320 --> 02:01:37,240
grow.
We'll all grow as a result of

2427
02:01:37,240 --> 02:01:37,680
it.
Is is.

2428
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:40,680
That's what this view is, and
that's what Intex have been

2429
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:42,680
telling me.
Do you think that they've, that

2430
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:46,360
you said it often happens with
radio waves and radios, sort of

2431
02:01:46,600 --> 02:01:48,120
maybe antennas and stuff.
Do you think that there's a

2432
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:51,320
reason this happens via that
electromagnetic spectrum?

2433
02:01:51,320 --> 02:01:55,160
Do you think that's there's a
specific special quality to that

2434
02:01:55,680 --> 02:01:57,920
that allows the communication to
occur do you think?

2435
02:01:57,920 --> 02:02:01,600
I mean it is very, it is very,
very interesting that it's

2436
02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:05,090
electromagnetic radiation.
That's the limiting you know

2437
02:02:05,090 --> 02:02:07,370
speed of the cosmos you know
that that it's nothing goes

2438
02:02:07,370 --> 02:02:11,170
faster than electromagnetic
radiation with light but it is

2439
02:02:11,170 --> 02:02:15,250
very a very curious thing that
that is the the the force that

2440
02:02:15,250 --> 02:02:19,410
is the dynamic and I I can't say
I understand why that is a

2441
02:02:19,410 --> 02:02:22,290
mystery I'm I'm interested in
that I I I I try to find out

2442
02:02:22,290 --> 02:02:24,570
from Intex but they haven't
given they they addressed it

2443
02:02:24,570 --> 02:02:28,410
that in a way that I couldn't
make sense of it but but I I I I

2444
02:02:28,410 --> 02:02:31,090
find that the most curious thing
like they you know there's these

2445
02:02:31,090 --> 02:02:34,080
four forces gravity is really
something different.

2446
02:02:34,120 --> 02:02:36,520
I I don't think you know this is
this point that's integrated

2447
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:39,480
theory to by theory gravity to
integrate with the quantities.

2448
02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:42,200
I don't even know if that's
necessary or the right way of

2449
02:02:42,200 --> 02:02:44,040
looking at them.
A little agnostic, but a little

2450
02:02:44,040 --> 02:02:49,200
skeptical maybe of that.
But I mean is it really this

2451
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:51,320
more than anything likes me to
believe that electromagnetic and

2452
02:02:51,320 --> 02:02:52,920
strong awake really are the same
force?

2453
02:02:52,920 --> 02:02:55,920
Because that would make the most
sense that this force you can't

2454
02:02:55,920 --> 02:02:58,520
go faster than the one force,
the way of matter.

2455
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:01,260
You know that that that seems to
make more mistake sense to me.

2456
02:03:01,820 --> 02:03:05,340
But that is something that I
find baffling is why that it is

2457
02:03:05,340 --> 02:03:08,460
electromagnetic radiation.
That's the thing that nothing

2458
02:03:08,500 --> 02:03:09,900
can go.
It is quite intriguing.

2459
02:03:09,900 --> 02:03:11,820
Fixes FaceTime, yeah.
Yeah.

2460
02:03:11,980 --> 02:03:14,220
Look, so well, OK.
This has been amazing.

2461
02:03:14,220 --> 02:03:15,860
I mean, so many things to
absorb.

2462
02:03:15,900 --> 02:03:17,420
A lot of the, I think the
listeners and the viewers are

2463
02:03:17,420 --> 02:03:20,140
going to be completely shocked,
of course to you together.

2464
02:03:20,740 --> 02:03:24,220
But I mean, from how thinking
emerged from chaos to obviously

2465
02:03:24,220 --> 02:03:27,300
a cosmic cycle, what would you
think of the most important

2466
02:03:27,300 --> 02:03:29,300
takeaways from from the journey
of the mind?

2467
02:03:30,300 --> 02:03:32,820
Going into this new cosmic cycle
that obviously people are going

2468
02:03:32,820 --> 02:03:35,220
to hear about and what should
they take away from the previous

2469
02:03:35,220 --> 02:03:37,860
book, going into this new book
and what can they expect?

2470
02:03:39,180 --> 02:03:41,700
The number one take away, you
know, as I said but I really

2471
02:03:41,700 --> 02:03:44,740
this can't be emphasized enough,
is that the universe was

2472
02:03:44,740 --> 02:03:48,780
designed for love, for
compassion, for empathy, for

2473
02:03:48,780 --> 02:03:50,860
connection.
This is part of the design.

2474
02:03:51,420 --> 02:03:54,660
This exists because of the fail,
safe, supreme.

2475
02:03:54,900 --> 02:03:57,460
Because the universe is designed
so that there can never be a

2476
02:03:57,460 --> 02:04:00,260
single God.
It can never be one, all

2477
02:04:00,260 --> 02:04:05,460
knowing, all powerful being that
allows love to emerge and emerge

2478
02:04:05,700 --> 02:04:09,100
and emerge again.
And it's up to us to find that

2479
02:04:09,100 --> 02:04:11,980
love.
None of this is predestined.

2480
02:04:12,260 --> 02:04:16,420
None of this is foretold.
We have free will and we can

2481
02:04:16,420 --> 02:04:20,700
choose actions and behaviors
that lead to love lead to

2482
02:04:20,700 --> 02:04:23,260
greater love.
We can choose to love others and

2483
02:04:23,260 --> 02:04:27,140
to behave kindly.
It's within our purview, and it

2484
02:04:27,140 --> 02:04:31,420
matters whether we do or not
alters the future determines

2485
02:04:31,420 --> 02:04:33,540
whether humankind will ascend or
not.

2486
02:04:33,780 --> 02:04:36,420
It's wonderful.
We're given all the tools we

2487
02:04:36,420 --> 02:04:39,180
need, all the opportunities we
need to ascend.

2488
02:04:39,180 --> 02:04:42,460
But it's up to us, Up to us as
individuals, up to us as

2489
02:04:42,620 --> 02:04:46,420
individual communities, and up
to us collectively as a species.

2490
02:04:46,740 --> 02:04:51,780
We designed the universe,
thinking beings like us, and we

2491
02:04:51,780 --> 02:04:54,860
continue to design the universe.
It's on our shoulders.

2492
02:04:55,140 --> 02:04:58,060
The universe is made for us.
We're supposed to be here.

2493
02:04:58,500 --> 02:05:02,860
We enjoy it, love one another,
create, try to solve it.

2494
02:05:02,980 --> 02:05:06,660
All of this contributes to this
cycle, contributes to this never

2495
02:05:06,660 --> 02:05:08,900
ending story.
It's a lovely thing.

2496
02:05:09,140 --> 02:05:12,020
You can study the math and
physics and science at any

2497
02:05:12,020 --> 02:05:14,540
level.
It's wonderful to do so, to

2498
02:05:14,540 --> 02:05:16,900
experience all that, it can all
be known.

2499
02:05:17,020 --> 02:05:17,980
It's a great thing.
It allows.

2500
02:05:18,020 --> 02:05:21,510
All of us, our own individual
journeys of understanding and

2501
02:05:21,510 --> 02:05:24,910
self-awareness and growth and
allows societies and allows

2502
02:05:25,030 --> 02:05:28,950
species, all of us to have a
chance and aspiring to those

2503
02:05:29,110 --> 02:05:32,590
higher rungs, it's wonderful.
I think.

2504
02:05:32,590 --> 02:05:36,590
I mean, you say perfectly, it's
beautiful, but when you close

2505
02:05:36,590 --> 02:05:38,750
up, I think we'll close up soon.
But how's your time?

2506
02:05:38,750 --> 02:05:40,710
You're right for time.
Are you sure?

2507
02:05:40,750 --> 02:05:42,510
Yes.
Just when you think about this

2508
02:05:42,510 --> 02:05:44,990
teleology, I mean, are you
saying that the universe is

2509
02:05:44,990 --> 02:05:47,030
designed for this, for the love
and?

2510
02:05:47,760 --> 02:05:50,560
And this purpose does.
Do you think that is compatible

2511
02:05:50,560 --> 02:05:52,200
then with a with free, with free
will?

2512
02:05:52,200 --> 02:05:54,200
Do you think that we're meant to
get to that point or do you

2513
02:05:54,200 --> 02:05:58,000
think that we don't have to
necessarily And and there is an

2514
02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:03,640
alternative.
Free will has has to be created

2515
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:07,520
and it has to be embraced.
Free will is one of the

2516
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:11,480
categories of dynamics that
exists only if you believe it

2517
02:06:11,480 --> 02:06:13,360
exists.
There's a lot of dynamics.

2518
02:06:13,560 --> 02:06:17,140
There's a lot of things in the
reality that only exists if you

2519
02:06:17,140 --> 02:06:19,420
think they use a beauty.
There's another one, like

2520
02:06:19,420 --> 02:06:21,820
there's no beauty in the
universe unless you think

2521
02:06:22,100 --> 02:06:24,580
there's beauty in the universe.
So you have to believe in free

2522
02:06:24,580 --> 02:06:25,740
will.
If you don't believe in free

2523
02:06:25,740 --> 02:06:27,740
will, you'll never have free
will.

2524
02:06:27,900 --> 02:06:32,300
So it it is a sophisticated act.
It takes a sophisticated mental

2525
02:06:32,300 --> 02:06:33,620
architecture and mental
structure.

2526
02:06:33,780 --> 02:06:40,460
Flies, insects do not have free
will and animals, but besides,

2527
02:06:40,460 --> 02:06:43,260
humans don't have free will.
You need this fourth run.

2528
02:06:43,380 --> 02:06:48,320
You need a language to have free
will, but it's designed if you

2529
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:50,480
have to rise to free will.
And for a country to have free

2530
02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:54,520
will requires building for all
these higher minds too.

2531
02:06:54,840 --> 02:06:56,360
You need to build the
architecture.

2532
02:06:56,360 --> 02:06:59,560
It doesn't happen automatically.
It's not magical, it's it's not

2533
02:06:59,560 --> 02:07:02,520
like a spiritual event.
It's just building the

2534
02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:05,520
architecture like anything else.
The architecture of of purpose,

2535
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:09,080
you know, in our own brains, you
know, we can explain it involves

2536
02:07:09,080 --> 02:07:11,840
the basal ganglia.
That's an essential structure in

2537
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:15,130
our own free will.
But you need a society around

2538
02:07:15,130 --> 02:07:17,210
you as well.
You can't have free will with

2539
02:07:17,210 --> 02:07:19,490
that without having a without
being embedded within a

2540
02:07:19,490 --> 02:07:21,410
supermind.
Because the sewer mind needs to

2541
02:07:21,410 --> 02:07:24,370
give you language and
sophisticated concepts, the

2542
02:07:24,370 --> 02:07:27,890
notion of free will.
You need a notion of free will

2543
02:07:28,170 --> 02:07:30,930
to have free will.
A chimpanzee can't ascend to it

2544
02:07:31,210 --> 02:07:32,850
because it can't understand it's
mine.

2545
02:07:32,850 --> 02:07:37,570
Can't ever form this idea that I
am deciding my own fate like

2546
02:07:37,570 --> 02:07:40,610
that's that's a complicated
idea, sophisticated idea.

2547
02:07:40,610 --> 02:07:44,500
Kids can't understand.
It takes time for society, for

2548
02:07:44,500 --> 02:07:47,460
species, for super mind to even
build up that idea and then for

2549
02:07:47,460 --> 02:07:49,900
the individuals to embrace it as
it should be.

2550
02:07:49,900 --> 02:07:53,300
Though you know free will is
earned, you have to work for it

2551
02:07:53,300 --> 02:07:55,220
as it should be.
You know and then you develop

2552
02:07:55,220 --> 02:07:56,700
and you can have more or less
free will.

2553
02:07:57,060 --> 02:07:58,540
You know based on the
architecture you have.

2554
02:07:58,580 --> 02:07:59,940
You know based on the
experiences, based on the

2555
02:07:59,940 --> 02:08:02,580
decisions you made, can lead to
more or less free will.

2556
02:08:02,740 --> 02:08:04,980
That's part of this journey too.
It's a journey of love and a

2557
02:08:04,980 --> 02:08:09,060
journey of free will.
Just the freedom of action is a

2558
02:08:09,060 --> 02:08:12,140
way to think of free will, and
that's what that's why

2559
02:08:12,140 --> 02:08:16,470
diversities so essential.
The more views and perspectives,

2560
02:08:16,470 --> 02:08:20,430
the more people we have with
different ideas, the greater the

2561
02:08:20,430 --> 02:08:22,750
range of freedom of action that
we have.

2562
02:08:23,190 --> 02:08:26,230
I mean, the ideas I have of
things I can do are limited by

2563
02:08:26,230 --> 02:08:28,550
my brain.
But maybe you'll share an idea

2564
02:08:28,550 --> 02:08:30,990
I've never had of something I
can do that might expand my

2565
02:08:30,990 --> 02:08:33,310
range of free will.
I'm now sharing with you and

2566
02:08:33,310 --> 02:08:36,390
your listeners, you know, a view
of free will, that you can

2567
02:08:36,390 --> 02:08:38,070
embrace it.
You can choose it.

2568
02:08:38,430 --> 02:08:41,810
Like choosing the free will is
what creates free will and then

2569
02:08:41,810 --> 02:08:43,650
you develop it.
Like now you have this idea and

2570
02:08:43,650 --> 02:08:46,290
maybe some people will develop
their own free will, you know,

2571
02:08:46,290 --> 02:08:49,610
within this framework.
So when you when you mention

2572
02:08:49,610 --> 02:08:51,330
this, it's designed for this
love.

2573
02:08:51,610 --> 02:08:54,290
If someone had to ask you then
who designed it to what?

2574
02:08:54,610 --> 02:08:58,810
What would you say we did?
We did all, all minds.

2575
02:08:59,370 --> 02:09:03,450
We all rise.
So there's a saying in text,

2576
02:09:03,490 --> 02:09:06,690
have we all work for zero, and
to zero we all return.

2577
02:09:07,050 --> 02:09:13,410
So there's this chaotic quantum
physics way of matter happening

2578
02:09:13,410 --> 02:09:16,330
everywhere all the time, just
this endless frothing.

2579
02:09:16,330 --> 02:09:20,090
And from this frothing there's
always the potential for

2580
02:09:20,090 --> 02:09:22,130
structures to grow.
And from those structures

2581
02:09:22,130 --> 02:09:24,130
there's always the chance for
mines to grow.

2582
02:09:24,370 --> 02:09:27,090
If you just take molecules and
organize them in the right way,

2583
02:09:27,090 --> 02:09:28,970
you can create purpose out of
that.

2584
02:09:29,330 --> 02:09:32,730
And that this is just happening
constantly of its own accord.

2585
02:09:33,130 --> 02:09:36,330
Molecule mines arising all the
time in different places in the

2586
02:09:36,330 --> 02:09:39,490
universe, out of this chaotic,
out of this quantum froth.

2587
02:09:40,020 --> 02:09:41,500
And maybe they'll rise to neuron
mines.

2588
02:09:41,540 --> 02:09:43,620
Or maybe not.
You know, like maybe on we'll

2589
02:09:43,620 --> 02:09:46,300
find on Titan, you know or or
some moon of Saturn.

2590
02:09:47,020 --> 02:09:48,900
Maybe they'll be molecule mines,
but nothing more.

2591
02:09:48,900 --> 02:09:50,420
Maybe they couldn't ascend to
the next level.

2592
02:09:50,420 --> 02:09:52,260
And this is it's always trying
to ascend.

2593
02:09:52,260 --> 02:09:53,260
Maybe I'll get to the next
level.

2594
02:09:53,500 --> 02:09:55,660
Here on Earth we've got to super
mine level.

2595
02:09:55,660 --> 02:09:58,100
We have self-awareness on Earth,
but that's how far we've gotten.

2596
02:09:58,380 --> 02:10:02,380
Maybe we'll keep going, maybe
not, but this just keeps arising

2597
02:10:02,380 --> 02:10:06,140
as long as you have it.
And then the axiomized mines, if

2598
02:10:06,140 --> 02:10:09,760
you get to the top, they're
constantly creating new physical

2599
02:10:09,880 --> 02:10:12,800
dynamics, like a new kind of
predictive randomness, new kind

2600
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:14,960
of quantum physics.
So it's just constantly

2601
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:17,360
churning.
So it was minds that came before

2602
02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:20,760
us and generations before that
shape the reality we have now.

2603
02:10:21,160 --> 02:10:23,760
But we are shaping value that
future minds will have, and it

2604
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:26,400
just goes on and on.
And on.

2605
02:10:26,480 --> 02:10:29,680
So do you overall, do you think
that there's a possibility that

2606
02:10:29,680 --> 02:10:33,240
there's a multiverse of sort of
mind shaping universes out

2607
02:10:33,240 --> 02:10:34,840
there?
I do not think there's a

2608
02:10:34,840 --> 02:10:36,400
multiverse.
I do not think.

2609
02:10:36,760 --> 02:10:39,960
I don't not think there's a
multiverse in the sense that

2610
02:10:39,960 --> 02:10:43,480
there's intimate infinite
versions of us and other

2611
02:10:43,480 --> 02:10:47,200
realities.
Some physics have this idea that

2612
02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:50,760
anytime there's a quantum event,
you know, the atom goes this way

2613
02:10:50,760 --> 02:10:53,320
and this way, there's two
universes, you know, they that

2614
02:10:53,320 --> 02:10:55,440
both these universes are
broadened existence.

2615
02:10:55,960 --> 02:10:58,640
I don't think that's necessary.
I think it's a little silly.

2616
02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:01,440
It doesn't match up with
anything in text is shared with

2617
02:11:01,440 --> 02:11:03,080
me.
It's that the universe just

2618
02:11:03,080 --> 02:11:06,520
keeps going on and on forever.
There's always new minds, always

2619
02:11:06,520 --> 02:11:09,250
new experiences.
They're ascending some are

2620
02:11:09,250 --> 02:11:13,330
falling some reach the top and
they change change the whole

2621
02:11:13,330 --> 02:11:16,570
context for the next round of
this going on and it just that

2622
02:11:16,570 --> 02:11:20,970
just goes on and on forever not
we're not creating parallel

2623
02:11:20,970 --> 02:11:24,770
universes there's not like a
creation of like you can't jump

2624
02:11:24,770 --> 02:11:27,130
and meet you know some other
version of you and and some

2625
02:11:27,130 --> 02:11:30,170
other realities how I understand
it but you know I I I can't say

2626
02:11:30,170 --> 02:11:33,650
for sure I'm I'm the expert.
It's just that that it's very

2627
02:11:33,650 --> 02:11:38,040
much doesn't match this cosmic
cycle framework that in text has

2628
02:11:38,040 --> 02:11:39,240
been sharing with me for 30
years.

2629
02:11:39,240 --> 02:11:41,280
There might be some way to work
it in there, but it feels

2630
02:11:41,280 --> 02:11:43,800
unnatural and unnecessary.
So they're definitely.

2631
02:11:44,080 --> 02:11:46,680
So they're definitely from this
universe, in that sense, from

2632
02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:49,320
you, from your perspective, they
are fundamentally part of this

2633
02:11:49,440 --> 02:11:51,440
fabric of reality.
Yeah, yeah, we're all, we're all

2634
02:11:51,440 --> 02:11:54,880
in this universe together.
We all share the same, as far as

2635
02:11:54,880 --> 02:11:57,280
I understand, this one physical
universe and we're all in it.

2636
02:11:57,360 --> 02:11:58,560
And we all remember The Big
Bang.

2637
02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:02,640
Have they ever told you anything
that you consider to be

2638
02:12:02,640 --> 02:12:05,840
fundamentally wrong?
No.

2639
02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:09,120
No, no.
I I I mean no.

2640
02:12:09,200 --> 02:12:12,640
There's been plenty of things I
didn't understand you know but

2641
02:12:12,640 --> 02:12:15,240
but, but, but where where I I
had a wrong understanding.

2642
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:17,640
So sometimes there's been that
but you know eventually when I

2643
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:20,720
understand it clearly then then
I realized it wasn't it wasn't

2644
02:12:20,720 --> 02:12:22,240
wrong.
The limitations have always been

2645
02:12:22,240 --> 02:12:23,840
on me.
You know like like it's it's

2646
02:12:23,840 --> 02:12:28,160
really confusing and hard to
understand almost always at 1st

2647
02:12:28,160 --> 02:12:30,760
and then it just takes time to
kind of kind of figure out.

2648
02:12:30,760 --> 02:12:34,020
So if there's any mistakes it's
it's from I think it's from me

2649
02:12:34,180 --> 02:12:37,420
you know but but but it all, it
all drives you know really well.

2650
02:12:37,420 --> 02:12:40,620
I mean you read Journey of the
Mind it just it matches it

2651
02:12:40,620 --> 02:12:43,060
matches in a way these other
theories of consciousness don't

2652
02:12:43,140 --> 02:12:48,020
in a broader scale you know
levels and broader reach just it

2653
02:12:48,020 --> 02:12:49,420
folds so many more things into
it.

2654
02:12:49,420 --> 02:12:52,980
So that's why that's why I've
that's why I've kept going with

2655
02:12:53,060 --> 02:12:55,140
it.
It just keeps connecting more

2656
02:12:55,140 --> 02:12:57,460
and more.
You test and a lot of what's

2657
02:12:57,460 --> 02:12:59,260
going to happen in the future.
Was there anything that they

2658
02:12:59,260 --> 02:13:02,580
have told you about the past
prior to our existence, prior to

2659
02:13:02,580 --> 02:13:05,540
mines that maybe we should know
about that you thinks worth

2660
02:13:05,540 --> 02:13:09,340
sharing In general?
There's something about The Big

2661
02:13:09,340 --> 02:13:12,700
Bang.
The Big Bang is important and

2662
02:13:12,740 --> 02:13:14,900
they're always talking about how
we all remember it.

2663
02:13:16,340 --> 02:13:21,220
And I they only tend to mention
things that are important and

2664
02:13:21,220 --> 02:13:23,260
relevant for understanding kind
of the big picture.

2665
02:13:23,340 --> 02:13:27,600
And so, yeah, there's something
about The Big Bang, I don't

2666
02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:29,600
think, you know, this is
mystery.

2667
02:13:29,600 --> 02:13:32,680
It's a low entropy event.
How did we get such a low

2668
02:13:32,760 --> 02:13:36,000
entropy event?
I I think that's part of the

2669
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:38,360
question.
But I I I think that's not the

2670
02:13:38,360 --> 02:13:40,840
really the most important aspect
of the question of The Big Bang.

2671
02:13:40,840 --> 02:13:45,440
But yeah, so, so there there's
something about The Big Bang and

2672
02:13:45,440 --> 02:13:48,080
this relationship between the
way of mind and the way of

2673
02:13:48,080 --> 02:13:52,880
matter.
I think you need a Big Bang for

2674
02:13:52,880 --> 02:13:56,500
all this for free will and the
unfolding of mind that there's

2675
02:13:56,500 --> 02:13:59,140
some there's some crucial role
and that it's set in a certain

2676
02:13:59,140 --> 02:14:03,500
way and it has something to do
with these games the axiomized

2677
02:14:03,500 --> 02:14:06,500
minds are playing.
But but yeah I I that's beyond

2678
02:14:06,500 --> 02:14:09,940
my understanding now.
So all I can say is it's there's

2679
02:14:09,940 --> 02:14:12,460
something there in The Big Bang
that's crucially important to

2680
02:14:12,460 --> 02:14:14,020
mind.
That's what I want to say.

2681
02:14:14,020 --> 02:14:17,020
It's crucially important to the
unfolding of mind and purpose

2682
02:14:17,620 --> 02:14:19,820
that that I don't quite have a
handle on yet.

2683
02:14:20,780 --> 02:14:23,300
And argue your your your next
book, the one you're working on

2684
02:14:23,300 --> 02:14:24,380
now.
Anything you want to tell us

2685
02:14:24,380 --> 02:14:25,300
about it?
Anything.

2686
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:31,440
It's called it's called Large
Gods for Small Children and the

2687
02:14:31,440 --> 02:14:34,200
opening of the book is available
for free on my website

2688
02:14:34,240 --> 02:14:38,000
ogiogis.com right now for
anybody that wants to read the

2689
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:39,960
opening.
And hopefully the whole book

2690
02:14:39,960 --> 02:14:41,560
will be out in less than a year.
Okay.

2691
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:43,520
So it's quite.
I think it should be out in the

2692
02:14:44,440 --> 02:14:45,800
the spring, but we won't.
We'll see.

2693
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:48,160
It's not set in stone yet, so.
Fantastic.

2694
02:14:48,160 --> 02:14:49,720
I'll put it definitely don't do
your year so.

2695
02:14:50,160 --> 02:14:52,040
And I'll come back on your show
after you read it.

2696
02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:54,240
I think that's that's definitely
on the cards.

2697
02:14:54,240 --> 02:14:56,600
I think I'm gonna put a link
into the description for the

2698
02:14:56,600 --> 02:14:58,720
listeners and the viewers and
and I'm looking forward to

2699
02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:00,400
reading it.
I'm I'm very intrigued.

2700
02:15:00,520 --> 02:15:03,800
If it's if it's the reason why
you've come up with your theory

2701
02:15:03,800 --> 02:15:07,640
of consciousness and the work
you've done with the the

2702
02:15:07,640 --> 02:15:10,080
theories that Stevens put
through and the work you and

2703
02:15:10,080 --> 02:15:13,000
Sigh have come up with, I think
it's definitely worth reading

2704
02:15:14,550 --> 02:15:16,750
Journey of the Mind.
The book I wrote with Psy is the

2705
02:15:16,750 --> 02:15:20,110
best way to describe it is
fusing the mathematics of Steve

2706
02:15:20,110 --> 02:15:22,990
Grosberg, integrated mathematics
of the mind Steve Grosberg came

2707
02:15:22,990 --> 02:15:26,590
up with with these revelations
about the physical nature of

2708
02:15:26,590 --> 02:15:29,590
reality from the from Intex.
So those.

2709
02:15:29,710 --> 02:15:32,270
That that is what Journey of the
mind is.

2710
02:15:33,390 --> 02:15:34,910
Yeah.
And yeah, I mean, I can't wait

2711
02:15:34,910 --> 02:15:36,950
to help the listeners enjoy it.
I mean, this has been absolutely

2712
02:15:36,950 --> 02:15:40,030
fascinating.
Any any final words anything you

2713
02:15:40,030 --> 02:15:45,120
want to say or leave out there.
The universe is a a beautiful

2714
02:15:45,120 --> 02:15:47,000
place and we're supposed to be
here.

2715
02:15:47,000 --> 02:15:49,760
It was designed for us so, so
enjoy it and love one another.

2716
02:15:50,040 --> 02:15:53,120
You know it.
We're we're not random specs

2717
02:15:53,120 --> 02:15:55,080
that happen to emerge from a
purposely universe.

2718
02:15:55,080 --> 02:15:57,840
No, no, no, no.
We're part of a great story and

2719
02:15:57,840 --> 02:16:00,640
never ending story and we all
get to write some verses of the

2720
02:16:00,640 --> 02:16:02,600
story.
You know it's a wonderful thing.

2721
02:16:02,600 --> 02:16:05,160
There's no God, there's no
single God.

2722
02:16:05,160 --> 02:16:06,640
There's no single controller of
it all.

2723
02:16:06,760 --> 02:16:09,520
We all have a chance to
influence the dynamics of

2724
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:13,240
reality and these, these, these,
the Super beings that will come

2725
02:16:13,240 --> 02:16:16,000
into existence one day of.
Which we will be part.

2726
02:16:16,280 --> 02:16:19,160
We will be part of these beings.
We're part of these beings now

2727
02:16:19,160 --> 02:16:22,200
without being fully aware of it,
understanding it.

2728
02:16:22,200 --> 02:16:26,360
And it's a wonderful view of the
universe that gives meaning to

2729
02:16:26,360 --> 02:16:30,280
our lives without rejecting any
of the physical reality that we

2730
02:16:30,280 --> 02:16:32,120
can see and test and experiment
on.

2731
02:16:32,120 --> 02:16:34,680
Yeah.
Well, that's absolutely amazing.

2732
02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:36,879
Thank you so much.
It's been an absolute pleasure.

2733
02:16:38,700 --> 02:16:40,820
You've been wonderful, Tevin.
Thank you so much for inviting

2734
02:16:40,820 --> 02:16:41,780
me on.
I had a great time.

2735
02:16:41,780 --> 02:16:44,340
Your questions are great.
I wish you the very best with

2736
02:16:44,340 --> 02:16:46,219
your show.
No, no, I can't wait to have you

2737
02:16:46,219 --> 02:16:48,540
back for around 2:00.
I mean, it's been incredible.

2738
02:16:48,700 --> 02:16:49,940
Thanks, Ogi.
Thanks so much.

2739
02:16:50,700 --> 02:16:51,459
Great talking to you.