Ogi Ogas: Can this Unified Theory of Consciousness Explain all States of Mind? The Hard Problem

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OK, the last time we spoke, we
the conversation seemed to go in

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a completely different
direction.

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So I think for this one, let's
focus on the hard problem of

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consciousness.
Just bearing in mind that I I

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enjoyed the previous
conversation.

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So it's not that I didn't enjoy
it.

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With this conversation, let's
focus on the hard problem of

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consciousness.
You and I are dismissive of this

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problem.
Let's discuss exactly why you

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guys are so dismissive of the
hard problem of consciousness,

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and thereafter we'll focus on
your theory of consciousness and

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how it ties into unexplained
phenomena.

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Well, poorly explained phenomena
like mental disorder.

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Very well.
Well, frankly, I'm still a

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little surprised that that the
hard problem is still part of

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any scientific conversation.
It was at least understandable

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in the 1990s before we had a
good understanding of

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neuroscience and, you know,
before Steve Rosenberg developed

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this mathematical framework for
understanding a lot of these

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mental functions.
But at this point, so much is

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known about consciousness.
It's so advanced and developed

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and yet I, you know, I I've
learned that there's so many

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many people out there that
believe the hard problem is is

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valid.
That that that there's some some

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validity to challenging this
relationship between mind and

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body, between subjective
experience and objective

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reality.
Which at the at the heart of it,

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the hard problem is the
statement for the for those in

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the audience that may not be
familiar with the hard problem,

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it's this assertion that we all
observe that when we reflect on

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our thoughts, when we reflect on
our our mental experience, it

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seems intangible, incorporeal,
you know, immaterial.

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And yet we know inside our head
are neurons and blood and

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molecules and protons and and
atoms and physical stuff.

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So the hard problem is simply
the observation that wow, how

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does objective public physical
stuff create subjective,

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intangible, private stuff?
That is the hard problem.

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And indeed it looks like
mystery, but it's no different

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than any other scientific
mystery.

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The history of science is
replete with hard problems.

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And to help us understand just
how silly, truly silly, how anti

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intellectual, anti scientific,
naive the hard problem of the

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consciousness actually is, let's
look at the very first hard

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problem in the history of
science, which was the question

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of gravity.
And in fact the scientist who

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first formulated the first hard
problem was Isaac Newton.

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I'm actually a huge fan of Isaac
Newton.

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I'm a big fan of him because
most people don't realize he was

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a spiritual Mystic guy that
thought he wanted to overthrow

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the the Church of England with
his own private belief system.

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So I I love Isaac Newton, but
Newton was actually the 1st to

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articulate the hard problem, he
said.

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Just like the hard problem of
consciousness with gravity.

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There's two objects and they
don't touch, they don't send

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signals.
We can't detect any information

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in exchange.
Somehow two objects apart

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influence each other.
This is mystical, said Newton.

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This is impossible to
understand.

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Nobody, and he even said people
who know philosophy, you know,

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our cognitive philosophy, must
recognize that this is an

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impossible problem.
And then anyone wanted to say

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that therefore it must be
divine, it must be God, some

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kind of Mystic transcended, or
it's behind two objects.

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So all this shows is that when
the human mind encounters a

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tough challenge, something that
seems on the face of it

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inscrutable, you know, we don't
want to believe that it's going

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to be hard for that, that it's
just us as our own personal

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inadequacy.
We want to proclaim it a hard

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problem for everyone.
If I'm not smart enough to

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figure it out, then nobody
should figure this out because

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it is a deep and mystical
problem.

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So.
So Newton was the first to

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articulate the hard problem
about gravity, gravity and

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consciousness, very similar.
What is going on?

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It does, on the face of it, seem
baffling.

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I don't want to deny that it
does, on the face of it, seem

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baffling.
But everything.

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What is time?
That's baffling.

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What is the origin of the
universe?

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Baffling.
Origin of life?

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Baffling.
You know, what are the key

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ingredients of life?
You know, even that's we know a

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heck a lot more.
But for a long time, deeply

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baffling.
Science is about solving the

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baffling things.
There's no reason to any problem

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and elevate it to some
spiritual, Mystic level.

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So what happened?
Let's first look at what

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happened with the hard problem
of gravity to help us understand

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how to think about the hard
problem of consciousness.

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So with gravity, who solved the
hard problem of gravity?

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It was Einstein, not a
philosopher, somebody who got

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deep and dirty and down in the
muck of physical reality.

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He cared about the details of
physical reality.

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And this is important.
Whenever Sonny says there's a

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hard problem, they're
immediately walling off all

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kinds of knowledge.
They're saying yes.

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Everything else is irrelevant.
Only this.

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The mystery itself matters.
Only this mystery of there's a

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force that connects 2 objects.
I don't care about space.

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I don't care about time.
The size of the objects doesn't

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matter.
The velocity of the objects, all

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that.
That's the easy stuff.

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Scientists say the mystery is
the gravity itself, but Einstein

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said no.
Rather than looking at gravity

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as a mystical force, he looked
at everything around.

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He took a holistic view.
What is space?

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Asked Einstein.
What is time?

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Asked Einstein.
What is mass?

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You know?
Is it fixed like we assume in

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the hard problem?
You know, He challenged all of

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these assumptions that fed this
hard problem, This, this notion

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of gravity is Mystic and
impossible.

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He challenged all of them.
And he came up with a whole new

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motion of space, a whole new
notion of time, a whole new

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notion of mass.
Mass can change depending on how

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fast you go.
The mass changes.

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He showed us all works together.
And incredibly enough, he showed

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that Newton was wrong that two
objects actually do directly,

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physically influence each other
because they warp space-time.

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It turns out space-time is a
dynamic structure, is what

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Einstein said.
It's a dynamic structure that

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could be influenced in a dynamic
way by objects moving

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dynamically.
The heavier an object is, the

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more it bends space, the more
gravity it exerts.

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It's just altering the
trajectory of objects to

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space-time.
It just took inspired creative

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mathematics, a higher
perspective, a broader

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perspective to solve the
problem.

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The hard problem was simply a
celebration of ignorance.

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On the face of it, this is
tough, sure, but that doesn't

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mean it's 'cause a cosmic
mystery.

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It doesn't mean it's a divine
mystery.

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It just means it's tough.
Now let's look at consciousness.

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Same exact thing.
Yes, yes, it is very puzzling

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very mysterious and enigmatic
that the physical junk in our

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brain, the spaghetti in our
brain, you know can feel love

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and and you know write books and
and lust after other people.

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All of this comes out.
It is mysterious.

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But again science science's job
is to illuminate the mysterious.

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That's what we're here but we
don't say oh it's too mysterious

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to tackle and any explanation
you come up with is going to be

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wrong.
That's anti intellectual, anti

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scientific, that's going back to
pre scientific days.

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That's I faith-based
proclamation of the immortality

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of the soul.
If you're saying there's some

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the mind is in, some other
blame, some energy, you're just

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dressing up.
The very old conviction, the

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ancient conviction that we have
a immaterial sold in soul.

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In academic jargon, that's all.
That's all it is.

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So what happened?
How was consciousness solved

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exactly like Einstein did.
First you have to go in a higher

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perspective.
You have to reject these human

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biased assumptions about what is
public, what is private, what is

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objective, what is subjective.
Those are just superficial

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terms.
Describe what we are observing

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superficially about our own
stream of consciousness.

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But just like gravity, it turns
out there's other things

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happening that these things we
thought we could ignore space

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and time and velocity, that
these things didn't seem at all

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relevant, are relevant.
The same with consciousness.

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There is a lot going on in our
brain other than just that

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moment of consciousness itself,
and you have to step out.

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Take this broader perspective.
Specifically, as I've I spoke

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about on your show last time, it
takes 3 hierarchical,

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recursively hierarchical levels
of dynamics to produce

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consciousness.
That's a physical fact.

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You can't do consciousness
without 3 levels of

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consciousness, and in fact
humans have a fourth level which

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allows us to have self
consciousness.

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Only humans and probably our
homo ancestors, Neanderthals,

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Homo erectus.
I don't know, maybe Homo

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hobilis?
That's a little more

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questionable, but definitely
earlier humans than modern

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humans almost certainly had
self-conscious self

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consciousness too.
But even then it really takes

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some special conditions to be
self-conscious.

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And here already we realized one
of the big fallacies in the hard

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problem, this assumption that
consciousness is a single thing.

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There's different forms of
consciousness, you know, that

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alone opens up whole new worlds
of understanding.

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And what was by insisting that
there's some myth, something

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mystical about that that this
problem is off limits somehow,

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that we can't reach it through
because it's just, it's just

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balderdash and it just it's just
sitting on your fat ass and

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saying I refuse to listen to
anything or explore because I

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know you know it, my my
parochial view of this thing,

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you know that must be right.
Yeah, it does drive me crazy.

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Do you think that Go go ahead?
You think a fundamental reason

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why this is such a big problem
is because only you have access

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to your own consciousness.
Do you think because because

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philosophers often come with
that angle of it's truly

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subjective.
There's no true way for you to

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explain someone else's
experience from their

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experience.
It's it's it's almost an

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impossibility with subjectivity
and and if you think about it

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science is the study of objects
not really subjects.

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In that sense, you think that's
what gives the ammunition

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ammunition to philosophers who
claim like, look, this is

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something that is hard, this is
definitely.

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A Well, well, see, I think we're
giving too much credence, too

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much respect to this notion that
we have a private subjectivity

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that nobody else can access.
First of all, we generally don't

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really know what we're thinking,
why we're thinking of.

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We all have a lot of confusion
about why we feel certain ways,

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why we think certain ways.
We have to derive clues

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ourselves to know what we're
about, what we're think.

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You know, we have to talk with
other people.

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Talking with other people helps
us understand our own views.

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That's why it's helpful to
express our feelings with us.

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That's why group therapy is so
effective.

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It's we don't really understand
even how we feel or think unless

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we can interact and hear other
people's reactions.

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Just the idea that somehow, you
know, our our subjective

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experience is some magic,
inviolable thing that only we

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have access to.
No, I mean that's what books are

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for.
You know, that that that's why

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we talk to each other.
Books are expressions of that

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inner self.
And as any writer will tell you

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that it's never perfect.
You know, you write a sentence

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that's trying to capture what
you're feeling, You don't know

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if it's complete, and then you
look at it and then you think

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some more and say, well, you
know, maybe I I don't quite feel

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that way.
So we ourselves are using the

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exact same tools to understand
our own thoughts and subjective

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experience that others use to
understand our subjective

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thoughts and experiences.
So I don't want to mobilize and

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and noble this notion that
somehow, yes, we can access our

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thoughts in some perfect
impermeable way.

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It's just not how it is at all.
One part of our brain is trying

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to figure out what's going on in
the other part of our brain, and

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this is happening at many levels
simultaneously all the time.

232
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So there's not some monad, you
know, there's some not perfect

233
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,120
monad of consciousness.
That's part of this mistake.

234
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,520
It's the same thinking of of
gravity as just a perfect force

235
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that's, you know, like a like a
thread connecting one object to

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00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,040
another doesn't exist and our
pure and subjective

237
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,960
consciousness doesn't exist.
What do you think either the

238
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,000
fact that even gravity at this
point we're struggling to find a

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00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,760
theory of everything?
Well, for the in terms of trying

240
00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,560
to find a combination for where
gravity ends in space, in

241
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:04,960
relativity, and where quantum
mechanics begins, this seems to

242
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,040
be a fundamental problem in
terms of science.

243
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,920
Do you think that could be a
sort of key indicator that this

244
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,280
problem, this hard problem,
truly is actually quite that

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00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,080
difficult because there's still
a fundamental gap in our

246
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,480
knowledge with reality?
Well, again, I would say, and I

247
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,120
agree that's also a a a valid
mystery.

248
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,840
You know, we look at that
quantum physics seems one way,

249
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,160
gravity seems another way.
How are they compatible?

250
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:32,360
A great mystery.
Absolutely.

251
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,640
A hard problem.
Unsolvable.

252
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,200
Need we need God.
We need mysticism.

253
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:37,840
We can't study it.
Hell no.

254
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,480
Hell no.
We're going to figure it out.

255
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,720
Personally, I myself believe
some of these answers are going

256
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,040
to come by integrating the way
of mind with the way of matter.

257
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,600
Physicists are locked into one
way of seeing logic reason.

258
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,920
They abandoned the the dynamics
of purpose 400 years ago.

259
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,560
They're in the dynamics of
aimlessness, the dynamics of non

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00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,320
purpose.
And that's what they're figuring

261
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,080
out.
So personally, I believe some of

262
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,680
these answers are going to come
once we start folding in the the

263
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,360
dynamics of purpose mind with
matter.

264
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,760
You know, I personally feel like
there's been a tremendous amount

265
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,280
of progress made once you
combine these things that hasn't

266
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,200
filtered down.
Now will that will the answer

267
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,640
combined in gravity and quantum
physics ultimately go through

268
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,360
mine?
It may and it may not, but it's

269
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,960
going to be something like that.
We're going to have to jump out.

270
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,280
Clearly what we have on the
table right now for quantum

271
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,880
physics and gravity is not
enough to solve it.

272
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,080
So just like we did with
gravity, got to go out.

273
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,800
Wow, you know, mass isn't fixed,
time isn't fixed, space isn't

274
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,280
fixed.
We just assumed they were.

275
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,000
They're not.
Same with consciousness,

276
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,040
consciousness.
We only thought this one

277
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,600
energetic mechanism.
No, you need complicated

278
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,680
dynamics, horribly complicated
dynamics.

279
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,400
You need molecular dynamics.
You need neuro dynamics.

280
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,120
You need modular dynamics, all
operating in sequence.

281
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,160
You need multiple modules in a
in a consciousness cartel.

282
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,720
But these are complicated,
sophisticated ideas that you

283
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,280
know, Descartes couldn't even
conceive of.

284
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,880
And and the fellow that first
proposed the hard problem in the

285
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,720
90s, he didn't know any of this
stuff, you know, he didn't know

286
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,560
math.
He didn't know anything about

287
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,960
physical sciences.
He He's armchair philosopher, I

288
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,000
think.
I can't see how subjectivity can

289
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,640
turn into objectivity.
Therefore I proclaim science

290
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,640
will never solve this problem.
Boy, oh boy, What arrogance.

291
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,560
What hubris.
Jeez.

292
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:27,760
Yeah.
Have you been following this

293
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,320
recent, I wouldn't say scandal,
but this news event where the

294
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,480
scientists got together and have
now labeled IIT, Panpsychism,

295
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,480
and Integrated Information
Theory as pseudoscience?

296
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,960
Have you been following this?
No, no, I don't.

297
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,400
I don't know, baby.
Tell me a little bit.

298
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,920
I I'd love to hear about it.
So I think Daniel Dennett, a

299
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,320
bunch of big philosophers, big,
big neuroscientists of our time

300
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,200
all got together recently.
Chris Frith, many of them.

301
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,640
And and this just happened not
like probably a few days ago

302
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,800
they wrote a paper where they
labeled IIT or panpsychism as a

303
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,400
very pseudo scientific approach
and it's it's gaining so much

304
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,160
traction.
This has become such a big topic

305
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,520
of discussion online lately that
you've got neuroscientists

306
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,960
philosophers going at it
thinking that merely labeling

307
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,200
something like IIT, which is a
very neuroscientific theory of

308
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,600
consciousness, as a
pseudoscience, just completely

309
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,920
destroys any sort of search for
consciousness overall.

310
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,960
This is almost it's almost akin
to let's say.

311
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,360
I can't even think of a a great
example, but it's it's almost

312
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,160
just hindering the conversation
more by trying to claim that any

313
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,200
theory outside of mainstream
physicalism is is labeled

314
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,720
pseudoscience at this point.
Because IIT or panpsychism from

315
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,080
that approach is very much a
neuroscientific theory, but it

316
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,480
it's made such major headlines
at this point.

317
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,280
So I I did look at briefly at
IIT in the past, but I don't

318
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,120
call the panpsychism part.
Can you maybe articulate what

319
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,040
happens?
I know.

320
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,480
So about the what's the
panpsychism idea within this?

321
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,520
Do you panpsychism?
Are you familiar with the term?

322
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,040
I've heard it, but I mean it can
mean a lot of things.

323
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,200
I mean, usually it means this
everything is conscious, you

324
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,760
know is the the most common.
So that that's that's basically

325
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,480
what it means is panpsychism
refers to the approach where

326
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,319
consciousness is a fundamental
feature of reality.

327
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:23,800
So.
No, that that's absurd.

328
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,160
Silly.
So basically.

329
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,839
It's that's that's just that's
just a restatement of the heart

330
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,440
problem that the immortal soul,
you know that that goes nowhere.

331
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:31,920
That is pseudoscience.
Yeah.

332
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,960
So from that perspective what
they say is that everything has

333
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,560
sort of proto elements of
consciousness, not not always

334
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,120
from from that.
That's ridiculous.

335
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,040
Big approach.
Some of them actually come come

336
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,720
to this discussion by saying OK
let's let's break down each

337
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,120
element of what consciousness is
or intelligence even and and

338
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,480
look at a cell for example.
A cell does certain things in a

339
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,400
certain way, and then they sort
of let.

340
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,680
Me.
Just stop it right there.

341
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,800
This is absolutely the number
one most common fallacy in all

342
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,160
of science.
Conflating activity for a thing.

343
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,400
Oh my God.
This just props up again and

344
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:04,960
again.
Here we are, the 21st century,

345
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,600
and people are falling for it
yet again.

346
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,040
Caloric.
You know, people thought that

347
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,160
was a thing.
People thought heat was a

348
00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,320
liquid.
Caloric.

349
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,200
No.
It's collective activity.

350
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,960
People thought flames,
combustion was a thing.

351
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,400
Flow just on.
No, no.

352
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,360
It's collective activity.
People thought life.

353
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,280
Where is Elon Vital?
We've got to find Elon Vital,

354
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,800
the magic substance responsible
for Elon Vital throughout the

355
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,400
universe.
No, no.

356
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,480
It's collective dynamics.
Consciousness.

357
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,160
Same goddamn thing.
There must be a fundamental

358
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,880
thing in the goddamn universe,
like caloric and float on Elon

359
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,560
Vital.
It always fails.

360
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,920
And it's an easy fallacy to
explain.

361
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,800
It's because our conscious mind,
our conscious cartel, is

362
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,040
designed to think about reality
in terms of things.

363
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,600
We resonate on inputs, and in
our mind we conceive of it as a

364
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,480
thing.
It's our deepest, deepest bias

365
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,120
is to look at the world in terms
of things and the idea that

366
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:03,680
we'll look at consciousness as a
thing.

367
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,360
Consciousness isn't everything
embedded somewhere like the way

368
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,000
Flo just on is embedded in
matter and bursts out when

369
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,200
you're a flame.
It's just a fundamental

370
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,200
misunderstanding of physical
reality.

371
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,840
Reality is dynamics.
It's the dynamics of matter and

372
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,520
the dynamics of mind.
It's activity and change.

373
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,320
If you want to understand
something, you understand the

374
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,200
activity.
The moment you elevate lionize a

375
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,120
thing, you know that was the
problem with the heart problem

376
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:30,960
of gravity.
Gravity is a Mystic force.

377
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,440
Let's look for this Mystic
force.

378
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,000
We got to understand this Mystic
force.

379
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,120
That was not the way.
You have to look at lots of

380
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,120
dynamics all interacting and
gravity falls out of it.

381
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,000
There is no gravity is what
Einstein discovered.

382
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,280
It's an illusion of gravity that
falls out of all this other

383
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,920
stuff.
Same with consciousness.

384
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,400
There's no one thing of
consciousness.

385
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,320
It's dynamics.
The the more sophisticated the

386
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,120
dominics, the richer the
consciousness.

387
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,080
You know, the dynamic.
Our consciousness is way richer

388
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,800
than our fish's consciousness.
We can make these comparisons.

389
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,480
Let's go into these dynamics
because when I spoke to Steve he

390
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,520
he he's very intelligent.
So it's it's I feel that Steve

391
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,560
sometimes gets in his own way
when he's trying to explain a

392
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,560
lot of these complex phenomenon
I think so he he tried he went

393
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,400
at it trying to figure out OK
how do we solve this stability

394
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,000
plasticity dilemma.
Let let let's figure out a

395
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,120
solution to this problem and
then he does that he comes up

396
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:28,240
with adaptive resonance as the
main factor that solves this

397
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,160
problem and and but in doing so
he sort of indirectly figures

398
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,880
figures out OK actually all
conscious states are resonance

399
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,640
states but not all resonance
conscious states.

400
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,600
A lot of people have been asking
within from his conversation and

401
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,120
when I spoke to him they
wouldn't know OK residence is

402
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:45,600
occurring.
It's very dynamic.

403
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,560
This process is is happening
throughout the body, all over

404
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,920
the brain.
At what point is this really

405
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,360
becoming subjective experience
and a lot of people can't seem

406
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,640
to tie their to get their head
around and what is there a

407
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,680
specific point or is there such
a blurry process that we can't

408
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,800
really label it as a conscious
point.

409
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,080
It's more of the dynamics are so
blurry in general that it is

410
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,920
consciousness at that point.
Are you able to shed some light

411
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,560
on that?
It's a tough question, I know.

412
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,160
Yes, this is great because
there's a very clear

413
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,560
mathematical answer to this.
This is not vague or ambiguous,

414
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,360
uncertain.
This is, this is the core.

415
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,280
This is the core of the
explanation of consciousness.

416
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,920
Let me be clear.
I think Roseburg's got it and

417
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,400
and he's great, but my own
interpretation of this might be

418
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,280
different than his.
So I'm aware of his thing, but

419
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,560
I'm looking at a bigger picture
I think than he is.

420
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,600
You know, I'm also thinking
about self consciousness, about

421
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,960
language, about super minds,
about other things too.

422
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,960
So I'm going to fold that in.
But Steve did identify the core

423
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,240
dynamic.
It is resonance.

424
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,120
Resonance has a it changes over
time.

425
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:54,680
It has a shape over time, a time
based trajectory and that

426
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,560
trajectory defines when and how
we'll experience that resonance

427
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,560
state.
The the the stronger the

428
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,840
resonance, The more powerful the
resonance, the quicker we're

429
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,320
going to be conscious of it and
the more immersive that

430
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,160
conscious experience will be.
So we have a top down

431
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,000
expectation.
His consciousness works again.

432
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,880
We have a top down expedition.
We're predicting what we're

433
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,720
going to see.
You know I'm, I'm looking at my

434
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,320
computer screen.
I'm expecting to see your face

435
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,480
Devin right in front of me And
my eyes give the facts on the

436
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,480
ground.
The eyes process perceive the

437
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,000
reality in front of me.
So the facts coming in is the

438
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,480
face of Tevin.
So I'm expecting to see Tevin.

439
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,240
I'm perceiving Tevin, the
expectation, the activity of

440
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,360
expectation and the activity of
the perception then resonate

441
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,680
just like a trumpet in a violin
playing the same note.

442
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,960
They synchronize, they prolong
the activity, they amplify the

443
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,720
activity.
And it is this trajectory of

444
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,400
resonance that determines the
details, the precise details of

445
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,840
our conscious experience, not in
a vague way, not in a hand

446
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,960
waving way, precisely the exact
features in the resonance.

447
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,720
And keep in mind it's not just
resonance that produces

448
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,600
consciousness, it's resonance
with features.

449
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,440
There is resonance in the brain
without features and we're not

450
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,720
conscious of those experiences.
An example is what is resonance

451
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,880
without consciousness.
One example is we have when

452
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,920
we're navigating, when we're
moving through the world around

453
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,520
us, we have a head centered
system that kind of maps reality

454
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,240
with our head at the centre and
then an object centre like we're

455
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,160
what we're looking at, we kind
of map around the object.

456
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,840
And those are two systems, they
have to be synchronized, they

457
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,920
have to be linked up.
So they do that through a

458
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,960
resonance.
But there's no features.

459
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,880
It's more like a 11 mapping of a
code.

460
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,320
You know, like the the word,
like the Secret Service code

461
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240
name of the president, you know,
like it's like mapping a code

462
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,040
name to the actual name 1:00 to
1:00.

463
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,600
There's no features, there's no
variety, There's no, there's no

464
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,800
change.
And therefore we're not at all

465
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,760
conscious of this.
We don't have words to describe

466
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,000
this inner process of mapping
our head centered space to

467
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,200
object centered space.
You know, we don't have words

468
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,000
for it because we're not
experiencing it.

469
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,560
It's only resonance with
features, and it's those details

470
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,720
of the features in the resonance
that maps to our subjective

471
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,640
experience.
Every feature can maps onto a

472
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,720
subjective experience and vice
versa, and we come into a

473
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,040
conscious experience as the
resonance begins.

474
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,000
Now keep in mind we have a
consciousness cartel.

475
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:35,080
We have multiple modules all
capable of generating

476
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,080
consciousness.
This too is a huge revelation

477
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,400
and a huge part of the
experience of the explanation

478
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,800
that the hard problem people
that believe in the hard problem

479
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,000
it would prevent you from seeing
the answer because you're part

480
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,040
probably insists that
consciousness is one thing.

481
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,520
A Mona like you were just
describing the panpsychism idea

482
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,360
like the the fact that we move
to that, that is not going to

483
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,960
get you an answer.
You have to recognize many parts

484
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:03,280
of our brain are capable of
independently generating

485
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,280
consciousness.
In fact the very structure of

486
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,960
our cerebral cortex, the six
layered structure of our

487
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,720
cerebral cortex is designed to
create conscious modules.

488
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,760
We can create new conscious
modules in this and a little

489
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,320
later when we're talking, I hope
to talk a little about autism.

490
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,360
I'll, I'll get into that in a
little more detail.

491
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,760
But the fact that there is a
different, that there's

492
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,200
different modules that each use
conscious and then these

493
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,560
consciousnesses compete.
The hard problem says nothing of

494
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,400
this.
Just like the hard problem of

495
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,960
gravity never imagined that
space-time is this bendable

496
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,440
thing that we need to know.
It turns out there's multiple

497
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,560
sources, multiple modules in the
brain, each capable of

498
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,240
generating consciousness and
they compete.

499
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,840
When I'm looking at something
unconscious of you in the air,

500
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,920
maybe I hear a sound over there,
somebody says, you know the

501
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,520
house is on fire.
Those two things compete for

502
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,440
control of the cartel, and
whichever starts to resonate

503
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,480
with the other modules and gets
the other recruits, the other

504
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,200
modules to resonate together.
That's what we become conscious

505
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,400
of and we become more conscious.
Music involves 4 conscious

506
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,360
modules, Rhythm, lyrics, timbre
and melody.

507
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,120
Each of those is a different
conscious module, different

508
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,960
conscious experience, but they
all get synchronized.

509
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,320
So when we listen to music we
feel more conscious, more

510
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,840
immersed, more the the feelings
are more intense when we listen

511
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,400
to music it's because it's 4
modules all synchronized, all

512
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,920
delivering us you know,
conscious, emotional,

513
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,120
perceptual, wallops in complete
synchrony and movies.

514
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,320
That's why movies are the most
immersive art form that we have,

515
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,880
because it's all the immersion
of music plus visual stuff too.

516
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,920
So that takes like, all the
muscles in our brain and gets

517
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,240
them to resonate together, and
we have more of a conscious

518
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,960
experience.
And all of this is reducible to

519
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,920
the math of the resonant
dynamics.

520
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,400
By looking at exactly what's
happening, each of these

521
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,440
resonant dynamics, we can
predict exactly what somebody's

522
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,320
feeling.
We can predict what it's like to

523
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,880
be a bat.
This is a old and old mystery

524
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,760
and old thought experience.
What's what's it like to be a

525
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,360
bat?
We can know even though none of

526
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:10,240
us are bats.
And that speaks to your

527
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,600
question, your your initial
thought that subjective

528
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,960
experience is somehow
inviolable, that's walled off

529
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,080
and nobody could.
No, no, no.

530
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,400
We can by looking at the brain
of another creature and

531
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,240
understanding.
I mean understand the brain of

532
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,520
another creature is not easy and
beyond our means.

533
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:25,920
Now.
So I I'm not suggesting that you

534
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,360
can just throw an MRI in a bat
and know everything that's

535
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,960
happening in the spring.
We're far from that point, but

536
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,320
with enough effort, like I know
people trying to understand how

537
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,360
songbirds sing, I know they're
starting to map that sort of

538
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:39,560
thing out.
So we could do the same in a

539
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,000
bat.
And if we understand which

540
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,680
modules are conscious, if we can
look at the resonances in the

541
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,560
modules, we can say this is
exactly what it's like to be a

542
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,160
bat.
A bat is experiencing this

543
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,240
feeling, this sensation, this
perception synchronized with

544
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,720
this.
So here's what it's like.

545
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,240
Possible.
Completely possible.

546
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,920
OK.
So look, I mean you you briefly

547
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,240
touched on this, but that theory
of mind, I mean that's what

548
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,760
that's what they refer to it as
is this theory of mind, this

549
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,160
ability of us to look at someone
else, me looking at you and

550
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,120
understanding that actually that
being is conscious and sort of

551
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,080
knowing that there's a there's a
sort of mind within that that

552
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,000
person.
Now the theory of mind is very

553
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,680
important when it comes to as a
medical doctor trying to study

554
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,360
some psychiatry and and mental
health patients.

555
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,280
Autism is one of those
conditions where theory of mind

556
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,440
plays a huge role.
Understanding what someone else

557
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,800
is thinking, trying to ascertain
what information they have

558
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,320
versus what you have and trying
to correlate this information is

559
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,000
important and autism is
something that you you have this

560
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,600
diagnosis.
Nowadays we there's autistic

561
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,600
spectrum because it's very
different and different types of

562
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,040
autism displays and portrays
itself in different ways.

563
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,440
Tell me about how your
scientific we we touched on this

564
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,440
the last time but I think let's
go into further detail.

565
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,680
How does your scientific kind of
consciousness further explain

566
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,800
this mental phenomena?
So first let me point out that

567
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,880
this is another reason why the
hard problem in any field

568
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,840
consciousness, gravity, is so
stultifying and oppressive and

569
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,600
anti intellectual is because
once you understand these

570
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,800
phenomenon, if you do truly
understand these mysteries,

571
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,800
these hard problems, then you
should be able to explain new

572
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,040
phenomenon.
New predictions integrate

573
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,840
seemingly disparate bodies of
knowledge.

574
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,120
And that's what Einstein did
with gravity.

575
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,080
First he integrated space and
time which were thought to be

576
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,440
separate.
He showed there's a very

577
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,960
important sense in which they're
the same and how velocity and

578
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,120
mass that there's a relationship
there too.

579
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,480
Nobody thought that was the
case.

580
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,000
But even more than that once he
understood gravity, in this new

581
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,240
point of view, there were new
predictions.

582
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,560
Black holes.
Nobody thought that black holes

583
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,160
could exist.
Even Einstein himself he thought

584
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,160
of this, did not believe black
holes were real when he first,

585
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,240
you know, saw the math for them.
But that's what you get when you

586
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,280
have a mathematical
understanding a physical

587
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,160
understanding and it says you
what?

588
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,440
Hey, guess what this math says
there's black holes out there.

589
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,720
There are black holes out there.
That's how you know you've got

590
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,720
an answer.
The same with consciousness.

591
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,600
If if this theory of
consciousness, based on

592
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,920
Grossberg's math, and that's I
and I are touting, is true, then

593
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,560
it should be able to explain
other mental mysteries.

594
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,560
And indeed it does.
And for me personally, the

595
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,000
mystery that it solved, the
mystery that I personally was

596
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,560
after, I am autistic, as you
pointed out, and it's been it's

597
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,440
a terrible, terrible condition.
It's isolating, alienating.

598
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,480
People with autism often have a
life of being misunderstood, a

599
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,960
life apart from others, being
disconnected, wondering what's

600
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,840
wrong with you.
So I felt all of that when I was

601
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,840
younger and when I first
discovered I had autism, it

602
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,680
wasn't until my late 20s and I
actually discovered it.

603
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,640
My my best friend at the time, I
was in Graduate School and my

604
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,560
best friend was studying theory
of mind.

605
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,200
And it was talking when he was
explaining theory of mind is

606
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,600
used to study autism and he was
talking about it and it just,

607
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,480
that was the moment.
I was like, Oh my gosh, that's

608
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,600
what I have.
And I looked out into the world

609
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,160
at the time, this is the the
late 90s and saw the scientific

610
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,720
and academic conception of
autism at the time.

611
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,680
And I thought, these guys don't
have a clue.

612
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,400
This is not the way to autism at
all.

613
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,240
I'm going to toss that out.
I'm going to forge my own path

614
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,960
and figure this out.
That's why I got one of the one

615
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,720
of the big reasons.
Obviously, I speak to

616
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,560
conversations with other
entities, and that was a big

617
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,600
motivation too.
But in the practical world,

618
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,440
everyday world, the thing that
motivated me the most was, what

619
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,400
is this autism?
How does it work?

620
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,720
And I quickly understood that
you need an explanation of

621
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,920
consciousness if you want to
understand autism.

622
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,920
And so once I finally had that
understanding of how

623
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,440
consciousness worked, it was
possible to understand how

624
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,200
autism worked.
Let's talk about it.

625
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,160
So what the the key big
knowledge.

626
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,880
It's not a big, the key mass of
knowledge that we need to

627
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,440
understand if we want to
understand how autism works.

628
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,400
And let me say autism is not a
spectrum condition.

629
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,080
I know that's the consensus.
It's a consensus based on

630
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,480
ignorance.
By the same reasoning, cancer is

631
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,720
a spectrum.
Coded is a spectrum.

632
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,160
Every because everybody
manifests differently.

633
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,640
I've always thought this is the
most bizarre thing.

634
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,720
Yeah, people with autism are
different.

635
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,400
People with any disease are
different.

636
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,320
People with any mental illness
are different.

637
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,320
Why is autism the spectrum?
And we don't have a anxiety

638
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,720
spectrum.
We don't have a a, a COVID

639
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,640
spectrum.
You know, it's just COVID.

640
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,320
What kind of COVID do you have
is you know what what's the the

641
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,560
the genetic make up?
That's it.

642
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,480
It's not a spectrum.
I think, I think so.

643
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,600
I think what's happening now is
that because the world obviously

644
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,640
everything is becoming so
politically correct, people are

645
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,000
often inclined to start
prefacing their their comments

646
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,640
and not trying to put things
into a a sort of a category.

647
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,960
Nowadays I've noticed it's it's
pretty much a pattern with a lot

648
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,160
of mental disorders where
they're slowly moving towards

649
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,960
that sort of spectrum approach
just and I find it's just less

650
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,640
insult something to some people.
Well, that's just that could I

651
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,880
could be wrong.
Well, I can't speak to the

652
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,720
social benefits, but in terms of
understanding what's actually

653
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,760
going on and being empowered to
make changes based on accurate

654
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,440
knowledge, scientific knowledge
of what's in your head, for me,

655
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,640
I always take truth over some of
the platitudes that make you

656
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,920
feel good.
So for those in the audience

657
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,360
that want platitudes, fine.
I, you know, call yourself a

658
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:53,280
spectrum.
Fine.

659
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:59,240
It's not scientifically invalid.
The DSM says it's a

660
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,760
developmental disorder.
No, it's not a developmental

661
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,160
disorder.
You just talked about how it's a

662
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,679
theory of mind disorder.
No, that's also a deception.

663
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:11,199
It's not a theory of mind
disorder either.

664
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,360
And I know speaking about
platitudes to make people feel

665
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,679
better, Neurodivergent, neuro
divergent.

666
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,360
Is this term being bandied about
somehow since I last checked out

667
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,159
in autism.
This is this is the new term and

668
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,679
it is pseudo scientific,
completely morally

669
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,520
unjustifiable, scientifically
unjustifiable.

670
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,080
In particular the notion of
neurotypical.

671
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,480
That is the most passive,
aggressive, unscientific concept

672
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,560
I can think of.
We don't want to divide the

673
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,360
world into us and them.
Nothing good ever comes about

674
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,320
dividing us, us and them.
I'm neuro divergent.

675
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,239
They're neurotypical.
That's just downright offensive

676
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,760
and wrong.
It doesn't reflect any knowledge

677
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,520
of the actual breed.
But let's actually jump back

678
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,600
into how autism works.
Then you can see why all these

679
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,120
things I just said about there's
no spectrum.

680
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:04,800
There's no developmental
disorder.

681
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,440
Theory of mind.
All irrelevant to the to the

682
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,520
problem.
Here's what's going on I think

683
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,360
with autism.
So back to the consciousness

684
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,840
cartel, How are we aware?
How does our mind manage?

685
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,480
How does our incredibly
sophisticated 4 level mind

686
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,920
manage the fact that there's
four levels of dynamics, 86

687
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,080
billion neurons, parallel
dynamics, hierarchical dynamics,

688
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,920
all operating at the same time
and yet in an instant

689
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,120
consciousness takes control of
all of it and makes us, the

690
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,760
whole brain focus on the same
thing.

691
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,600
That is what the consciousness
cartel is designed to do.

692
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,440
As I just said, all we're
conscious of many things are

693
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,560
potentially conscious of many
things at any given moment.

694
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,680
All these models are processing,
always working at every moment

695
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,080
and they're each trying to
recruit the rest of them.

696
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,280
They're each trying to take over
the consciousness cartel and at

697
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,600
any given moment one of them
wins and we we're conscious of

698
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,120
that particular modules
experience.

699
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,440
So that's how it's designed to
work.

700
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,240
Let's figure out where autism
comes into this.

701
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,960
So the human mind is part of the
Super mind.

702
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,160
We're going to need to take a
minute.

703
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,320
That's not a detour.
This is essential to understand

704
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:25,320
autism and again shows how
oppressive and pointless the

705
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,520
hard problem is because it's
going to prevent you from

706
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,840
thinking about things like this.
Once you understand that there's

707
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,400
a level, a layer of dynamics,
physical dynamics in our brain

708
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,560
that's responsible for
consciousness and another layer

709
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,760
that's responsible for self
consciousness, we can understand

710
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,640
what is this self consciousness
dynamic about.

711
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,080
That is a super mind dynamic.
It requires other minds.

712
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,840
You can only have a self.
You can only be self-conscious

713
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,360
if you're embedded in a
community of our human minds.

714
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,080
Because you need language.
Language is what binds us all

715
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,480
together.
It's what it's the connectivity

716
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,400
of a super mind.
There are mind to mind dynamics.

717
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,440
These dynamics are all designed
for one thing, shared attention.

718
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,440
The reason super mind dynamics
are the dynamics of shared

719
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,400
attention.
Language is the mechanism of

720
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,080
shared attention.
I say fist and instantly we're

721
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,200
have this attention on the same
concept and looking at the

722
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,160
screen, we're going to have the
shared attention of my fist on

723
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,560
the screen.
Peace, love.

724
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,680
These are words.
You hear the word we have shared

725
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,080
attention.
There's other ways to have

726
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,720
shared attention.
Gestures, pointing, pointing

727
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:45,800
almost certainly evolved either
in junction with language,

728
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,840
perhaps even predated.
We point as another way to have

729
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,000
shared attention.
Look at that thing there, there.

730
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,520
Look at that thing over there.
Let's both consider this thing

731
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,800
in front of us.
Super mind dynamics are about

732
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,040
shared attention.
The primary, the driving

733
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:07,200
mechanism of the shared
attention comes in our modules.

734
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,440
Our most sophisticated human
module, the Y module, isn't.

735
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,240
Why am I doing this?
the Y modules responsible for

736
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:20,880
our feelings, our emotions, our
emotional balance of objects and

737
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,520
people and activities and
possibilities.

738
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,920
You know, I don't like him.
That's why I'm not going to go

739
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,720
to his party.
I think she is great.

740
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,480
That's why I'm going to try to
date her.

741
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,840
The Y module gives us the Y for
thing, but the Y module as part

742
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,680
of this also does something very
special, very human.

743
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,680
And that is the Y module
automatically paints other

744
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,400
people with emotional color.
So when a normal human, when a

745
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:59,040
non autistic human walks into a
room and they see a book, a

746
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:04,080
bell, a candle, and A and a
stranger, they're instantly

747
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,480
going to focus on the stranger.
That's because of the Y module

748
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,800
paints.
The person, makes them light up

749
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,680
in the room.
That's the thing we're going to

750
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,520
focus our attention on.
Autistic people do not have

751
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,840
this.
When I walk in a room and

752
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,520
there's a book, a bell, a candle
in the stranger, I might look at

753
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,440
the stranger, but if it's a
really interesting book, I might

754
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,440
look at the book.
I might wonder why there's a

755
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,200
candle in this room.
I might look at that.

756
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,400
It's even it's 5050 whether I
have to look at the person or

757
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,240
one of the objects.
And for autistic people, many of

758
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,000
them will always look at the
object first.

759
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,240
They'll find nothing in
particular of interest to the

760
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,360
person.
People are not getting painted

761
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,160
as special.
People are not lighting up in

762
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,640
our cognizance the way they do
in yours.

763
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,360
This is different than theory of
mind.

764
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,160
It sounds similar, but the
proposed mechanism, when you

765
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,760
hear the theories of your mind,
it's different.

766
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,080
It's not this.
So this is saying the Y module

767
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,480
in a prefrontal cortex is where
most of it's located.

768
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,960
It's designed to make people
light up in healthy people's

769
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,720
awareness.
Now that's the start of a

770
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:18,360
complex series of mechanisms in
the conscious cartel that

771
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,400
ensures that healthy humans
focus on people.

772
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,160
And once they're focusing on
people, they're going to focus

773
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,520
on what the people are doing,
their conversation.

774
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,520
Their actions, all of this and
healthy people just lights up.

775
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,040
It's natural.
You don't even feel it or think

776
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,880
about it.
Of course I'm going to look at

777
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,120
the person.
Of course I'm going to talk to

778
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,400
the person.
Why wouldn't?

779
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,320
It doesn't even seem to be
something to examine.

780
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,440
This is why non autistic
scientists have had such a hard

781
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,800
time understanding autistic
people, because they're not even

782
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,280
aware that they're doing this,
that they have this.

783
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,640
So they're they're looking at
the, the what seems to be the

784
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:55,960
problem.
That's why they came up with

785
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,160
this theory of mind that looks
like from the outside, but from

786
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,320
the inside just people aren't
lighting up in our awareness.

787
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,160
I know other people have
thoughts.

788
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,440
That's not some profound mystery
that I had to solve.

789
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:12,080
It's just who the hell cares?
I don't care that other.

790
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,440
It's no more or less interesting
than the fact that this, this

791
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,480
candle is flickering in a really
interesting and mysterious and

792
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,800
enigmatic way.
That's very interesting, The

793
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,280
fact that people have thoughts.
Yeah, that's about equally as

794
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,240
interesting to me as a person
with autism.

795
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,520
So what happens to the normal
healthy human brain is designed

796
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,920
that if a person's in the room,
the entire consciousness cartel

797
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,280
is going to go to work on that
person.

798
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,000
That's what it's designed to do.
And then automatically, because

799
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,000
that's where the attention is,
All these other social

800
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,400
mechanisms, learning social
norms, learning how to

801
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,280
communicate, how to talk to
people, learning the right

802
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,960
gestures, learning the right
thing to say in different

803
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,600
context.
We learn that because our in

804
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,000
healthy people, the whole
consciousness cartel is focused

805
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,840
on their thing, on people.
But we lack that.

806
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,040
So here's the consequence.
This explains so much of autism.

807
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,640
And again, after I explained it,
I'll show why this means it's

808
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:11,240
not a spectrum condition at all.
We don't, we autistic folks

809
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,080
don't automatically focus on
people.

810
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,480
What it means is our
consciousness cartel can

811
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,160
resonate on anything
interesting.

812
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:24,200
And that's why those of with
autism have special interests.

813
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,280
We have special interests the
way other people have a special

814
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,160
interest in human beings.
We don't have a special interest

815
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,880
in human beings.
So whatever our individual

816
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,640
brain, everybody's brain is
different.

817
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,120
Even autistic people, they all
have radically different brains,

818
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,480
because everything else besides
the autism can be whatever it

819
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,120
is.
Highly variable, highly diverse.

820
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,560
So some people's brains might
naturally like to process visual

821
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,800
stuff.
Maybe they'll become painter.

822
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,520
An autistic person will become a
painter or a designer.

823
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,360
I've got an autistic friend
who's a brilliant visual

824
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,560
designer.
She focuses on the visual stuff.

825
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,440
I have autistic friends that are
great at music.

826
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,120
They're they just happen to be
wired.

827
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,560
Their acoustic modules just
light up ease.

828
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,880
They're more attracted to
things, and they just happen to

829
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,320
be the things that they ended up
loving and focusing on instead

830
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,640
of people we don't know.
I I think an autistic person can

831
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,040
end up resonating on just about
anything, and this explains why.

832
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,840
Also, autistic people sometimes
seem so smart at certain topics

833
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,840
at their special interests, why
they seem smart in their special

834
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,880
interests than when healthy
people have that same interest.

835
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:35,240
It's because in healthy humans,
huge parts of our brain are

836
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,880
dedicated to learning social
stuff.

837
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,200
Learning social norms is
incredibly resource intense

838
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,120
learning, communication,
effective communication with

839
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,080
other people, incredibly
resource intense takes lots of

840
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,320
neurons, lots of neuro dynamics.
But we aren't using those parts

841
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,440
of our brain.
We are.

842
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,440
We autistic folks aren't using
those resources.

843
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,840
What happens instead is because
we are focusing on people, our

844
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,440
consciousness cartel naturally
dedicates those social parts of

845
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,320
our cortex to our special
interest.

846
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,400
So we start using.
We start taking the parts of our

847
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,560
brain that were designed for
sociality, and instead we

848
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,960
colonize it for whatever our
interest happens to be at that

849
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,520
time.
This is a known phenomenon.

850
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,600
People who are blind, for
instance, their audio modules,

851
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,360
start to infiltrate and invade
what was previously the visual

852
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,480
cortex, the brain.
This is part of the fundamental

853
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,640
competitive nature of everything
in the brain.

854
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,080
All these modules are always
trying to take over each other,

855
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,360
like literally and not just
figuratively, literally.

856
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,320
And so when the the if you're
blind, your visual module can no

857
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,080
longer hold its own.
So the audio module just comes

858
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:47,720
in and starts stealing
territory.

859
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,280
I think that's what's happening
in our artistic brains, that

860
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,440
we're simply recolonizing these
unused social areas, massive

861
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,440
unused social areas for our
special interests.

862
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,640
Instead, let me say one last
thing.

863
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,120
I know I am talking and talking
and I am sorry.

864
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,200
It is my it is my autism.
I am not good social

865
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,080
communication.
So it's fine.

866
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,440
I monologue on my like all
autistic poke, I monologue on my

867
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,560
special interest.
If I was talking about the

868
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,800
weather or something, I would be
very calm an ordinary I.

869
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,480
Think, I think, look, I think
before I continue the next

870
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,240
question touch on why it's not a
spectrum now.

871
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:38,720
So if the core source of this is
that we're not that human beings

872
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,360
are not getting lit up in our
cognizance, there might be more

873
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,760
than one.
I'm sure there's more than one

874
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,560
way physical mechanism that can
cause that.

875
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,320
So just saying it's just
deficiency in the Y module.

876
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,160
There could be many, many ways
to end up there.

877
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,960
They could be a genetic thing,
There could be a biochemical

878
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,160
thing, There could be a physical
injury.

879
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:02,080
There might be mishaps in other
parts of the brain whose effect

880
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,680
is to prevent the the that human
painting from getting sent to

881
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,840
the right place.
So there's all kinds of things

882
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,640
that can cause it, but that's
not really a spectrum.

883
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,800
If all of us with autism are
fundamentally suffering from our

884
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,040
emotion module not lighting up
other human beings, if that's

885
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,920
the mechanism, that's the
mechanism.

886
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,560
It's not a spectrum.
It's not that one person has

887
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,160
this mechanism.
It has autism because of X.

888
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:29,800
Another person has autism
because of Y.

889
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,440
Another person has autism
because of Z.

890
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,600
The mechanism is that humans
aren't lighting up in our brain.

891
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,000
Our consciousness cartel
therefore resonates on any old

892
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,240
thing and recolonizes the parts
of our brain used for social

893
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,720
material.
If that is the mechanism, then

894
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,320
it's not a spectrum, It's this
one thing.

895
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,800
A person who has autism has a
faulty Y module.

896
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,920
Humans aren't getting painted.
That's it.

897
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,160
It's not.
It could be this.

898
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:00,400
It could be that, and this also
helps understand one thing that

899
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,600
bugged me even in the 90s and
especially drives me nuts now.

900
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,640
When you look at the list of
deficiencies, neural defects,

901
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:14,560
behavioral defects associated
with autism, it's long and the

902
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,080
baffling thing.
Not everybody has these defects.

903
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:20,800
That was one of the reasons
people considered a spectrum.

904
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,240
Some people have motor problems,
some people don't.

905
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,640
Some people are non verbal, some
people are verbal.

906
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,760
That contributed to this feeling
that it's a spectrum.

907
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,880
I would argue it's one mechanism
some kind of defect in the in

908
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,600
the human painting could be lots
of ways comes about, but that's

909
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,880
the mechanism.
Just like lung cancer, we know

910
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,160
what lung cancer is.
There's lots of genetic routes

911
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,160
to forming lung cancer.
There's not one trajectory to

912
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,480
build lung cancer, but it's
still lung cancer.

913
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,800
You know, it's not a spectrum of
different cancers.

914
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,120
It's lung cancer.
Or in autism, it's just one

915
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,040
mechanism.
But if we have anything else

916
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,400
going on in our brain for any
other reason, then that's not

917
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,600
necessarily autism.
I know in myself I have terrible

918
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,920
memory, and for years I thought
my terrible memory was because

919
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,120
of autism.
I just assumed it because like

920
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,000
everyone else, if I've got
autism and other brain problems,

921
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,360
I assume all the other brain
problems are part of autism.

922
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,960
But now I know.
You know, I've met plenty of

923
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,760
autistic people who have
terrific memory.

924
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,360
But really, what helped me get
clarity on this is I've realized

925
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,160
both of my parents are autistic,
my mother and my father.

926
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:35,640
And my mother has terrific
memory and my dad has terrible

927
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,760
memory like mine.
I inherited my dad's terrible

928
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,280
memory.
It's a separate neural defect.

929
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,200
It's not something linked.
Now it might be LinkedIn a

930
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,400
sophisticated way in the as in
the following, sometimes we have

931
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,560
defects because of there's a
receptor in our neuron that we

932
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,800
make too many of the receptor or
too few of the receptor and that

933
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,720
receptor might have many
different places.

934
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,800
So let's say I have I'm missing
a receptor, let's just say maybe

935
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,800
that receptor's biggest place is
in the Y module and so that's

936
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,720
the biggest impact that creates
autism.

937
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,720
But if I'm also missing that
receptor in the motor control,

938
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:16,920
maybe it's going to give me some
motor defects as well.

939
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,600
So it's possible that some
neural defects are caused by the

940
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,360
same underlying source as the
genetic.

941
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,200
But I think in many cases,
probably most cases, they're

942
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,240
just separate conditions that
because they're presenting in

943
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:35,280
the same person.
We think that way.

944
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,320
Temple Grandin, kind of the
first famous autistic person,

945
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,520
very famous autistic woman.
She saw she figured out how to

946
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,320
make cows happy as they're being
killed in slaughterhouses before

947
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,720
cows would just they get really
scared and nervous and and she

948
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:55,200
figured out how to how to calm
them down.

949
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,360
She was convinced that her
autism gave her a small

950
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,280
cerebellum and that's why she
had motor control issues.

951
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,280
I don't have motor control
issues.

952
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,040
I know other autistic people who
are terrific athletes and

953
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,040
autistic.
So the motor control, I think

954
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,320
Temple Grandin just happened to
have a small cerebellum, not

955
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,720
because of autism, just that
happened to be something else

956
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,600
she had.
We have all kinds of neuro

957
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,040
flaws.
Our brains are immensely

958
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,440
complex, we're all going to have
multiple neural defects and I

959
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,400
think many, many of these are
just lumped together.

960
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,080
Really the core of it, that we
all share, all of us with autism

961
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:36,560
is we don't naturally attend to
people are our attention

962
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,160
management system.
Our consciousness system does

963
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,800
not naturally focus on people
the way it does in non autistic

964
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:43,760
folks.
That's it.

965
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,280
Everything else is there, not
part of artistic or flows out of

966
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,200
that primary cause do.
You do you think that these

967
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,200
attentional differences or these
variations in the module of the

968
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,840
why allow autistic people access
to information that non autistic

969
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:08,480
people have access to?
So I one thing I I I strongly

970
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,520
believe, and I'm always
studying, is the notion of

971
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,200
states of mind, states of
consciousness.

972
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,320
So we have just like there's
different states of matter,

973
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,720
solid, liquid gas, there's
different states of

974
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:29,320
consciousness, an obvious one.
Sleep state, dream state, waking

975
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,560
alert state.
Now the different states of

976
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,840
matter are defined by dynamics.
It's the physical dynamics of a

977
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,680
substance that determines
whether it's a solid, liquid or

978
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,280
gas.
If the dynamics are volatile and

979
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,280
loose, it's a gas.
If they're rigid and tightly

980
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,560
packed, the dynamics are small
and tightly packed together,

981
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,520
It's a solid.
Very similar with our minds

982
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,160
dynamics.
The state of consciousness, like

983
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,760
right now we're talking to each
other, is a state of resonance

984
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,480
in a higher function.
When we're asleep, that

985
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,320
resonance goes away.
It's very real that every night

986
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,920
when you go to sleep, you die.
You are dead.

987
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,200
You no longer exist.
What you are if what you are is

988
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,640
your resonance, if what you are
is your resonant dynamics.

989
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,960
Every conscious experience you
have, every awareness that I am

990
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,400
me, I am myself.
Every understanding of the world

991
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,760
is a conscious experience.
When you sleep, those dynamics

992
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,200
shut off.
You know, we tell ourselves this

993
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,040
beautiful illusion that somehow
we're still there.

994
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,040
It's our brain that's still
there, but it's not the brain.

995
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,280
When we're dead, we've still got
the same brain.

996
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,360
The brain doesn't go go away.
It's the exact same brain as

997
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,880
when we're alive.
It's the dynamics.

998
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,880
What about?
So, so R.E.M.

999
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:48,720
Is another special state of
consciousness as well that the

1000
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,080
the mind has devised.
We can't move so it's it's

1001
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,320
resonance but the motor control
is shut off.

1002
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:00,400
I think people with autism we
are able to enter states of

1003
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,400
consciousness different from non
autistic people.

1004
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,800
I know it took me a long time to
think about this and understand

1005
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,080
this, but when I compare notes
with with others about conscious

1006
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,960
states, you know this is hard to
deal with.

1007
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,360
It is sort of comparing
subjective experience, which you

1008
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,520
need to be very careful.
You know, it's easy to be

1009
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,760
sloppy, it's easy to be biased
and self-serving.

1010
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,400
So I'm not suggesting this is in
any way easy.

1011
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,080
You have to be rigorous.
But I believe people with autism

1012
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,800
can enter different states of
consciousness for this reason

1013
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,880
because we don't have that
social aspect.

1014
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,080
The human, healthy human minds,
the entire dynamics are designed

1015
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:44,440
to operate around people, Even
our knowledge, even what we

1016
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,880
accept as true and false, even
what we accept as knowledge

1017
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,960
vertical knowledge about the
world is driven more than

1018
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,400
anything else about our social
group.

1019
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,360
We believe what our friends
believe, our family believes,

1020
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,200
our colleagues believe, the
other members of our religion

1021
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,880
believe.
Our our ability to distinguish

1022
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,160
truth from falseness is far more
influenced by what others

1023
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,800
believe than about physical
reality itself.

1024
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,440
That's because healthy humans
enter this kind of state of

1025
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,200
consciousness that resonates
with other a shared tension.

1026
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,280
Most humans are perpetually in a
shared attention state of

1027
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,080
consciousness.
That's what it's designed for.

1028
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,400
But we autists are broken out of
that.

1029
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,600
We don't have those shared
states of consciousness.

1030
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:28,480
We have to work for them.
They're hard, they're exhausting

1031
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,320
to have shared states of
consciousness.

1032
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,800
We can let that go and have a
complete and total resonance in

1033
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,000
our brain that doesn't involve
other people.

1034
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,920
That allows us to look at
objects and puzzles and hard

1035
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,480
problems in a very different
way.

1036
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,160
It allows us to bring all kinds
of resources on it and look at

1037
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,840
it with a perspective that other
people don't.

1038
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,440
Because human, healthy humans,
they're always feeling, always

1039
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,200
influenced by what others feel,
just can't let it go.

1040
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:58,760
It's just it's how the brain is
designed.

1041
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,880
It's not a question of will or
or or being submissive or

1042
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:03,440
anything like that.
It's just how our brains are

1043
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:04,360
designed.
We're designed.

1044
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,400
Healthy brains are designed to
really, really give high

1045
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,280
importance to the beliefs and
opinions of others In our group

1046
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,600
and people with autism, we don't
feel that.

1047
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,800
Something quite fascinating that
we touched on briefly the last

1048
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,640
time was how an experience of
psychosis from a from an

1049
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,720
autistic perspective can be very
different.

1050
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,080
Do you want to do you want to
open that up a little and let's

1051
00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:31,640
let's discuss how that can
change one's experience of a

1052
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:37,840
psychotic episode?
Well, I I think from your

1053
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:44,200
perspective, yes, I think one of
the reasons now let's get into

1054
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,640
that that that that that crazy
stuff we talked about last time.

1055
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:53,400
I think now one of the reasons
I've been able to communicate

1056
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,320
with Intex, I've been able to
find a way to interact with

1057
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,560
extraterrestrials is because of
autistic states of

1058
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,920
consciousness.
This was not at all clear to me

1059
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,800
for most of my life, you know, a
big puzzle what was going on.

1060
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,080
But now I'm beginning to the
more and more I talk to others,

1061
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,080
talk to other autistic people,
talk to other non autistic

1062
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:16,920
people, talk and talk and talk.
I I'm starting to see that I'm

1063
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,960
able to go into a state of
consciousness.

1064
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,200
It's hyper alert so that that's
the number one way to describe

1065
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,640
it's not dreaming at all.
It's not in a dream and it's

1066
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:28,760
endlessly mutating
interpretations.

1067
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,200
It's a cat.
No, it's a dog.

1068
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,040
No, it's a it's a ice cream
cone.

1069
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:34,240
You know every It's just
constantly changing.

1070
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:36,800
It's ambiguous.
The stories don't make sense.

1071
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,280
You know, you try to tell a
story and it just goes

1072
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,400
everywhere.
It's not like that at all.

1073
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,680
These intex states of
consciousness that I am able to

1074
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:53,240
go into are hyper alert.
It's where reality has ristoline

1075
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:55,200
quality.
It just, it's like an avatar.

1076
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,800
It's almost like entering a
video game where everything is

1077
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,520
clearly demarcated.
Everything has a meaning,

1078
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,200
everything has a purpose.
Everything is sharply defined

1079
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,200
when that happens and I now
think it's because it's a

1080
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:11,320
special kind of autistic state
of consciousness, because I can

1081
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,520
have lesser versions of that in
my everyday.

1082
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,680
You know, when I'm thinking
about puzzles, you know when I'm

1083
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,320
thinking, when I'm trying to
tell all the mystery like

1084
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,240
consciousness or autism or any
of these things, you know, I get

1085
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,720
immersed in it in a total way
where I I I just reality fades

1086
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:30,760
away and the puzzle itself just
assumes this hyper hyper real

1087
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:33,400
thing.
And in Texas like that to an

1088
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,120
incredible degree.
It's sort of like I'm somewhere

1089
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,680
of the fabric of reality and and
I'm aware of things happening.

1090
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,680
I'm aware of dynamics and and
and there's things there that

1091
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,400
that that want to talk to you
about that want to share things

1092
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,920
with you and I become open to
that.

1093
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,680
So I think that's I I think
that's ultimately what might be

1094
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,800
happening in my brain during
these these experiences because

1095
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,400
they're very different.
They're not like dreams.

1096
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,200
They're not like other you know
I've done a lot of drugs in my

1097
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,080
life.
I know what drug experiences are

1098
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,280
like of many sorts and and this
has always been very different

1099
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,560
than a than a drug than
anything.

1100
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,880
It's it's just not like anything
else wanted.

1101
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,480
I want to be careful because I'm
going to throw myself if I talk

1102
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,640
too much about it I'll throw
myself into it.

1103
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:26,960
But it's it's just it's like a
transition crossing over to to a

1104
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,760
state going from a liquid to a
gas or or or a solid to A to a

1105
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,080
gas.
It's something like that.

1106
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,440
It's just a dramatic shift in
awareness.

1107
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,440
How often?
It happened now.

1108
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,640
Does it happen often?
Yes.

1109
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,560
And it's been accelerating.
It's it's near continuous these

1110
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,920
days.
When I was younger, I I needed

1111
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,600
drugs, you know, throughout my
20s.

1112
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,160
I call it my my time of blood
and filthy.

1113
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:56,720
My life was awful.
But back then I I needed drugs,

1114
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,680
especially LSD.
But at one point I ended up

1115
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,040
Intex gave me this Riddle.
They said if I saw the Riddle,

1116
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,160
I'd I'd be able to access this
machine.

1117
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,880
I saw the Riddle of this Riddle
of nine dots and I teleported to

1118
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,640
Moscow.
That's a story another time.

1119
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,640
But from that point on, after I
teleported to Moscow and lived

1120
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:26,520
under Putin, from that point on,
I no longer needed drugs to to

1121
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,920
to enter the state of
consciousness and and today I

1122
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:33,240
can enter it.
I have to be well rested.

1123
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,600
I can't be tired, I can't be
worn down, I can't be

1124
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,920
intoxicated on alcohol or or
things like that.

1125
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,000
That would reduce my so I do
need certain context, but as

1126
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,600
long as I am have that context,
as long as I'm alert and well

1127
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,360
rested then then most of the
time these days I can enter that

1128
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,080
in text state, yes.
Before we continue, OK, you

1129
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,200
mentioned Putin.
Tell me about Putin's Russia.

1130
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,200
I mean, you talk about
authoritarian governments.

1131
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,800
How do you think that?
Why do you think at least, that

1132
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,960
Putin's Russia is not conscious,
but America's?

1133
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:13,240
Democratic democratic government
is And how does this relate to

1134
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:14,400
autism?
Because we didn't touch on how

1135
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:15,760
it relates to autism the last
time.

1136
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:21,400
Sure.
I think America is democratic.

1137
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,320
I think what we're witnessing
right now is the beauty of

1138
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,840
democracy.
Democracy isn't everybody

1139
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,280
sharing the same opinion.
It is literally dealing with

1140
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,280
lots of different opinions,
which is what our brain is

1141
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,640
designed to do.
The marvel, the majesty, the

1142
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,600
magic of the consciousness
cartel is that it's designed so

1143
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,000
that no one module, no one
neuron, no one anything is in

1144
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,840
control.
It's absolutely decentralized,

1145
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,400
ideas constantly bubbling up
from anywhere the conscious

1146
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,600
cartel will take it.
It does not matter where the

1147
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,840
idea comes from, where the
perception comes from, where the

1148
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,600
conception comes from.
The consciousness of the cartel

1149
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,160
will take it.
Figure out what's best for the

1150
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,200
whole mind.
What should I pay attention to?

1151
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,880
What should I pursue?
That's the marvel of

1152
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,480
consciousness.
And if you have those same

1153
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,560
dynamics in a super mind, then
you're also going to have

1154
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,200
consciousness.
This is why democracy is so

1155
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,640
wonderful.
Our brains are chaotic and crazy

1156
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,880
and messy.
Our brains are not logical,

1157
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,200
fixed rigid systems.
Not remotely.

1158
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,160
It's 86 billion neurons, each
which has its own story, its own

1159
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,880
opinion, its own voice, all
clamoring to be heard at the

1160
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,000
exact goddamn time.
It's a dozen models in our brain

1161
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,760
that all clamoring to be heard,
to be the center of attention

1162
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:47,640
and in a given moment.
And sometimes they get to be the

1163
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,080
center of attention, but it
never lasts long before somebody

1164
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,560
else does.
That's what we're seeing.

1165
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,040
The Democrats want to control
the Americans mind.

1166
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,440
The Republicans want to control
the Super mind, but that's at a

1167
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,320
high level.
We got local state governments,

1168
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,520
we got local governments, we got
county governments.

1169
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,040
There's so many levels.
There's neighborhoods, so many

1170
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,600
dynamics, so many communities.
Each of these wants a voice.

1171
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,320
Each city wants a voice in its
state.

1172
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,760
Each state wants a voice in the
country.

1173
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:20,560
Each political party wants to
take control of the democracy.

1174
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,240
American democracy gives
mechanisms to manage all of

1175
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:28,000
this.
We allow it to be rockuous and

1176
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,480
chaotic and crazy and
unpredictable.

1177
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,360
It's absolutely unpredictable.
Who is going to win the next

1178
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,200
election?
Who the hell knows?

1179
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,680
It's a toss up.
Maybe somebody who's not even

1180
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:39,560
running might end up being the
president.

1181
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,240
That's what America is.
And Russia, we know exactly

1182
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,000
who's going to.
They just had elections.

1183
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,840
Nobody bothered voting because
everybody knew it was going to

1184
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:50,720
be.
That is not consciousness.

1185
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,600
That's not democracy.
Why our conscious mind works is

1186
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,840
because of this incredible
decentralization,

1187
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,920
democratization.
We give every neuron a voice,

1188
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,520
every neural network of voice,
every modular voice.

1189
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,760
And that's what we try to do in
America, and honestly, do it

1190
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,720
exceedingly well.
What we're seeing right now is a

1191
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:10,960
result of the success of our
democracy.

1192
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:17,880
It's not a sign of our decline.
Russia is the exact opposite.

1193
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,680
Every authoritarian state is the
same thing.

1194
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,960
It collapses.
Here in America we have 300

1195
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,240
million minds, all contributing
to attention in America.

1196
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,640
In Russia, it's one mind, one
beauty.

1197
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,720
Tiny little mind.
Why on earth would you want to

1198
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,880
substitute one mind for 300
million?

1199
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,440
I wouldn't.
I want to live in a super mine

1200
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,080
that's controlled by 300 million
people, not controlled by one

1201
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,680
really sullen, self absorbed,
conquest obsessed little mind

1202
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,920
that doesn't really.
He clearly doesn't understand

1203
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,320
war.
He was getting his butt kicked,

1204
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,520
you know, he completely.
The problem is when you have

1205
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,960
that kind of system, there's no
incentive for honesty.

1206
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:02,760
There's no bottom up, it's all
top down.

1207
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:07,240
There's no resonance in America.
We have resonances constant.

1208
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,880
We're voting constantly, we're
complaining constantly.

1209
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,440
We're arguing constantly, bottom
up, constantly, with the top

1210
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,640
constantly resonating, just like
in our brain.

1211
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,560
In Russia there's no resonance.
In China there's no resonance.

1212
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:25,040
That's why the Great Famine
under Mao Zedong, why did the

1213
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,320
Great Famine happen?
Mao thought everybody in this

1214
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,240
country was being fed.
He thought everything was good

1215
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,520
and happy.
He didn't know there was famine.

1216
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,800
Why didn't he know his famine?
Because when you've got a top

1217
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,760
down dictatorship, all the
incentives are to please the

1218
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,800
dictator.
So even though all the local

1219
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:42,560
officials knew there was no food
and everybody was starving at

1220
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,440
that, they didn't wait until now
that Chernobyl under the Soviet

1221
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,080
system, the Putin system, same
exact thing that Chernobyl

1222
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,840
turned into a massive disaster
that need to happen because

1223
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,880
everybody all the local
officials were incentivized to

1224
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,520
lie there's you can't get the
bottom up information in a

1225
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,040
dictatorship so you can't
resonate so you can't have super

1226
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,320
mind consciousness.
So as chaotic and is unpleasant,

1227
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:11,480
and I know it can be scary and
upsetting to be in our American

1228
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,280
democracy right now.
It's so chaotic and

1229
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:18,760
unpredictable, but nevertheless
it's a lot better than living in

1230
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,440
a dictatorship and.
Tell me, how does that link to

1231
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,560
the autism?
How can you how do you see that

1232
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:31,760
relationship with autism?
So in America, in a democracy,

1233
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,520
when it's opera with supermind
is operating in a healthy way,

1234
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,440
it is primarily aware of other
nations.

1235
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,760
America very engaged with every
nation on earth.

1236
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,080
We have embassies everywhere.
We have military everywhere.

1237
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,720
You might be unhappy about that.
There's certainly social

1238
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,680
memorial arguments about that.
But as a super mind, we can

1239
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,480
project power and action and
behavior and influence

1240
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,640
everywhere in the world.
We've got the United Nations and

1241
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,560
we brought them here in New York
City you know, where we we can

1242
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,880
keep an eye on them.
America, a healthy brain is

1243
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:12,240
designed to focus primarily on
others And so we are very

1244
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:14,680
engaged in foreign affairs.
It's sad.

1245
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,800
You know from time to time in
America we have America first

1246
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:19,800
streak.
You know Magus certainly by far

1247
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:21,280
from the first.
This just comes up again and

1248
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:22,400
again.
We have the know Nothings.

1249
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,960
Back in the 1830s their first
America first were trying to

1250
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,720
keep us out of World War Two.
They didn't want us to go fight

1251
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,280
Hitler.
They're like let Hitler have

1252
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,000
Europe.
Let's just stay in force,

1253
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,640
America, the American first.
But there's a reason America

1254
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,480
always says no to that and ends
up reaching out.

1255
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,480
It's because it's healthier.
It's we're designed if you let

1256
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,960
if you have robust bottom up
mechanisms and you're engaging

1257
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:49,880
in the world, you're going to
focus on other minds.

1258
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:56,400
So sadly autism is a lot more
like being a dictatorship than

1259
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,560
being a mind.
We don't Orient towards others.

1260
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,800
They do get insular.
You know, Putin just got locked

1261
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,320
himself in a room and looked at
maps and decided, you know, I,

1262
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,240
he's feeling aggrieved that the
West is ruling everything.

1263
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:12,760
I'm just going to go grab
Ukraine.

1264
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,800
In other countries, you know,
like these borders don't matter.

1265
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,360
Like he's deciding that on his
own, without any interaction

1266
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,040
with anybody else, other people,
but also other nations, a kind

1267
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,560
of isolation and detachment and
aloofness that results in

1268
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,600
unfortunate things.
And you know, as sad as pains as

1269
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,520
I am to say it, I think autistic
people are more like that than

1270
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:38,560
than than like America.
Tell me, I notice your your

1271
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,080
background is of space now at
this point it's it's nice you

1272
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:46,440
change what's what's your
thoughts on the recent outbreak

1273
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,320
of these whistleblowers
discussing these uaps?

1274
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,760
Seems to be a lot of it.
So.

1275
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,880
Uaps unidentified.
Like UFOs, yeah.

1276
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,320
So they they they now call it
Unidentified Anomalous

1277
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,160
Phenomena.
Just I guess another change.

1278
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,240
Well.
I haven't, Oh.

1279
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,080
It's pretty much.
Looked into the depth because I

1280
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:12,760
don't need to, I I'm 100% sure
that all the Uaps are either

1281
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,680
other countries technology.
I mean we just had Chinese

1282
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,640
balloons.
That is literally a UAP.

1283
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,439
The military doesn't needs
anything like that as a as a

1284
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:26,720
UAP.
So any foreign drone is going to

1285
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,640
be a UAP.
Our skies are literally littered

1286
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,960
with UAP these days because of
the because of drone technology

1287
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,960
and balloon technology or, you
know, weather phenomenon.

1288
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:37,880
I don't think there's anything
more than that.

1289
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:43,200
So here's the thing.
There's no plausible reason why

1290
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,720
extraterrestrials would send
little spaceships to us, that

1291
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:51,479
the resources involved in that
would be atrocious, especially

1292
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:55,600
anything that would operate
according to principles, is our

1293
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,319
technology.
It's ludicrous.

1294
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,880
I mean, the extraterrestrials
I'm interacting with, they don't

1295
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:06,640
need spaceships to to
communicate with, to communicate

1296
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:10,680
with us.
It it just we can understand

1297
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,279
this.
This is a general principle that

1298
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:16,359
we can understand when we think
about these levels of purpose,

1299
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:18,560
this ladder of purpose, the fact
that there's molecule minds,

1300
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:23,479
neuron minds, module minds,
super minds and then maybe hyper

1301
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:26,160
minds.
In my conception, the axiomized

1302
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,680
these these extraterrestrials,
some of them are axiomized mines

1303
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,760
at the at the very top of this.
By having these different levels

1304
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:37,319
moving from one level to
another, it's very resource

1305
01:09:37,359 --> 01:09:41,439
intense.
Think how costly it was in terms

1306
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:46,000
of cash and people to identify a
Higgs boson.

1307
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,479
This is a subatomic quantum
particle.

1308
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,319
In Europe, they have a giant
particle accelerator.

1309
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,480
It cost billions of dollars, not
1,000,000 billions of dollars.

1310
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:57,360
And I think it was like a team
of 1000 people.

1311
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,680
The papers that publish, they
have like 1000 authors.

1312
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:05,880
That's how much crap you need to
find one tiny subatomic particle

1313
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,280
particle.
What if you wanted, you know, a

1314
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,640
million of those particles?
What kind of resources would you

1315
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:12,800
need?
It would be too expensive to

1316
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,720
conceive of under these things.
So moving up and down is

1317
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:22,560
incredibly resource intense.
If you are at a high level to

1318
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,200
move down to the to these lower
levels is is expensive to study.

1319
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:30,160
Bacteria cost money.
It's not an even though bacteria

1320
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:34,200
are small and tiny and their
minds are trivial compared to

1321
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,600
our minds in the physical
reality actually try to study

1322
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,520
them.
You need equipment, you need

1323
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,000
tools, you need a budget.
You know you need multiple

1324
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,760
people working together.
You know you need a lot of

1325
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,600
resources.
So it's not so easy to go up and

1326
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,400
down and we kind of treat it
like these massive

1327
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:51,200
extraterrestrials.
Of course they're going to

1328
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:55,480
easily and want to come to us.
But there's a resource question,

1329
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,040
you know, involved in that
that's the same as the one we

1330
01:10:58,040 --> 01:10:59,840
face.
You know, physics is the same

1331
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,240
everywhere.
So like the idea that they're

1332
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,600
going to build spaceship
airplanes, you know, and and fly

1333
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,960
on our sky like, but that's what
they're going to spend their,

1334
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,400
their resources to do when they,
you know, it's very.

1335
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:14,800
Human Those are very.
Yes, yes.

1336
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:19,160
Tell me.
If it's if, if your perception

1337
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,640
of aliens is something that
humans would do, it's, you know,

1338
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,360
it's almost like going.
To be wrong.

1339
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,280
Yeah.
Because when.

1340
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:31,000
OK, let's touch on the hyper
minds again because I I don't

1341
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,360
recall the last time did did we
discuss the.

1342
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,120
I think we did actually.
No.

1343
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:40,520
Let let's let's scratch that.
Let's try and figure out when

1344
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,200
when these conscious experiences
of an altered reality, let's

1345
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,600
call it an altered reality for
now because it is different in

1346
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,520
that sense when when they occur.
How energy consuming is this

1347
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,840
experience for you?
Do you feel like this really

1348
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,360
does take its toll on you?
Is it an active brain burning

1349
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:59,120
journey?
Yeah, it's it's it's exhausting.

1350
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:02,640
It's physically and and and and
mentally exhausting.

1351
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,040
I mean, it's also, it's also
always terrifying.

1352
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:10,960
I I mean, even now you know it.
It's not before.

1353
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,200
It was so crushing.
Terrifying.

1354
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,000
I I mean terrifying on a a
level.

1355
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,400
I just can't relate in words,
you know, it's like being

1356
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,000
tortured.
You have your eyes pulled out or

1357
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:24,000
something would be more welcome
than than because it's an

1358
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,000
existential torch.
Like knowing that there's beings

1359
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:31,160
that can take you apart and
change your mind and control,

1360
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,520
you know, that have power beyond
your company.

1361
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:37,600
It's it's terrifying in a way
that that our mortal

1362
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:42,920
experiences, our everyday, you
know, experiences aren't today

1363
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,520
they're less terrifying.
But when you're interacting with

1364
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:50,440
them, I mean it, it's scary, you
know, it's, you know, it

1365
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:52,280
shouldn't be happening.
You know, it's impossible.

1366
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:56,240
You know, this is at the moment,
however much I talk about my

1367
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,480
understanding of them when
you're in it, it's just, well,

1368
01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:00,880
they can do anything.
And I I, I don't really know all

1369
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:05,480
I have some maybe awareness of
some fragments of of this now I

1370
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:08,440
have some understanding but it's
mostly just mysterious and

1371
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:13,440
terrifying and and so coming out
of it you know it's it's leaving

1372
01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:18,920
this experience that's scary
that's exhausting that's that's

1373
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,880
that's mentally trying all of
those things.

1374
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,600
Absolutely.
What So?

1375
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:29,080
Is there is there any sort of
physical manifestation of this

1376
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,120
occurring in real life?
Let's say are these beings

1377
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:35,280
interacting with this universe
that we engage with on a

1378
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,840
day-to-day basis?
Is there any sort of effect that

1379
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:45,520
they're having on reality?
So I yeah, I mean they are

1380
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,040
reality like so.
So they're very clear.

1381
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,120
There's just reality that this
that we all share.

1382
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,400
It's it's it's matter in mind.
You know, it's dynamics of

1383
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,440
matter, dynamics of mind.
Even these axiomized minds,

1384
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:58,200
they're made of us.
You know, they're they're

1385
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:02,520
they're not something else.
It's just like the United

1386
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:04,360
States.
It's made of people, you know,

1387
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:06,360
like we could, you could say
United States.

1388
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,080
It's the buildings in the land
and it's, you know, the

1389
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:10,600
Constitution.
It's those things.

1390
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,160
But really it's the minds within
it.

1391
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,680
You know, if you take out, you
can take out the Constitution,

1392
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,040
still have America, you can, you
know take out a lot of the land

1393
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:20,560
have a, you know, still have
America.

1394
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,240
We can we can move.
You know, we, we the boundaries

1395
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,080
of America shifted.
We used to be 13 colonies.

1396
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,360
Now we're a whole continent.
So America's boundaries shift.

1397
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,880
But if you take out all the
mines, no more America.

1398
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,760
So these beings, they're made of
minds of all the lower levels.

1399
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:38,400
So it's not some just some
sophisticated thing up there.

1400
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,960
It's all these hierarchies.
Just like we have molecules,

1401
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:45,840
cells, neural networks, modules
and then we're in a super mind.

1402
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:47,240
the Super mind has the same
thing.

1403
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:50,400
The things at the top are just
comprised of all of these

1404
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,800
things.
So their purpose, I mean think

1405
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,840
about it in terms of their
purpose, their purpose is

1406
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:00,960
influencing us.
I mean I clearly they're aware

1407
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:02,720
of us.
They're interacting with me.

1408
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:05,960
I've interacted with, with with
two for sure, two axiomized

1409
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:10,240
minds for sure that I'm pretty
certain about, maybe others, but

1410
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:11,960
you know, unless I'm sure I
don't want to talk about it.

1411
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,320
And so clearly if they're
interacting with me, their

1412
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,680
their, their purpose is part of
this.

1413
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,800
But it's the same.
It's like thinking about is

1414
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,080
America aware of me, You know is
America.

1415
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,240
There is a sense in which
America is aware of me is like

1416
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:29,960
the government tracking me, you
know, as the government saying I

1417
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,480
I need to know where OGIOGAS is
every moment of the day.

1418
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:35,480
No, but they could.
You know, if if some if

1419
01:15:35,480 --> 01:15:38,120
President Biden said I need to
know where OGI is every moment,

1420
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:39,920
you know they're going to be
able to pull that off.

1421
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:43,640
But short of that, they're
probably not aware of me.

1422
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,480
So are they?
Is America aware of us, You

1423
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:48,880
know, as a work aware of my
town?

1424
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:51,920
It's that kind of question.
I mean it's that kind of

1425
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:56,240
understanding and awareness.
It's like a potential awareness

1426
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:00,000
we're in there field of
influence you know just just

1427
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,120
like us.
You know I'm not aware of

1428
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:05,520
whatever is directly behind me.
I can't can't see it I'm

1429
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,080
potentially aware but if I if I
turn it and look oh it's it's

1430
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:13,080
it's my it's a it's a field of
stars behind me So now I now I

1431
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:14,960
know it's it's something like
like that.

1432
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:21,320
I don't necessarily think that
it's super easy for them to

1433
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,960
influence us though I think it's
this resource question and they

1434
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:28,160
and they've conveyed that before
too that the communication

1435
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:33,040
always costs resources and you
know apparently you know

1436
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,000
communicating with us is is more
resource intense.

1437
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:39,680
I I really think it is like us
trying to communicate with a

1438
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:41,760
with a bacteria or something.
You know, we can communicate

1439
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:45,000
with bacteria but you know it's
not something you can do for

1440
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:50,400
free and.
So I can imagine, OK, so but I

1441
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,560
could see that when you when you
thought you were entering it at

1442
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,400
that point there, there's that
look of fear in your face.

1443
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,240
Is there any reason why you
think they haven't done anything

1444
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:03,600
bad to you at this point?
You think that they're they're

1445
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,120
just kind of.
Benevolent I've gone through a

1446
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:08,560
I've experienced a lot of
horrors.

1447
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:13,680
I mean, I mean these days it's
joyful.

1448
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,400
It's all come together it all.
Why is that?

1449
01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:18,720
Maybe that means means justified
the ends.

1450
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:22,880
Well sometimes I feel like they
were training me 'cause where I

1451
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,520
am now it it it all feels like
lessons, you know like like I I

1452
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:30,080
understand consciousness now.
Self consciousness language pain

1453
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,960
you know autism.
I just talked about autism.

1454
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,560
The way of mine the way of my
understanding of things it is

1455
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:39,560
compared to where I started it's
phenomenal.

1456
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,400
You know and and they led me
here and and I feel connected to

1457
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:45,880
other people.
I I I was able to overcome my

1458
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,480
autism to some extent.
It's not perfectly but you know

1459
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,640
I love talking to other people
now.

1460
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:51,920
I love connecting with other
people.

1461
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:55,040
I care about people's inner
life, other people's joys and

1462
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:58,240
dreams and and when I facilitate
I want everybody to understand

1463
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,720
these things and have these
joyful experience.

1464
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:02,000
I want this to be open to
everyone.

1465
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,880
I just this matters to me
tremendously.

1466
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:05,560
When I was young I didn't feel
that way at all.

1467
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:09,840
You know I I was selfish and
self absorbed and clueless and

1468
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:14,160
and and and and you know I
wasn't like I was a bad person

1469
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:18,000
but I was a selfish person.
You know I so I went under a

1470
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,480
moral transmission and and I
didn't know crap about how

1471
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:23,240
anything worked.
You know when I think about some

1472
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,960
of my idea early ideas about
consciousness and the world yeah

1473
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,000
it was it was wrong.
It's completely wrong headed.

1474
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,520
I'm sympathetic to anybody that
comes up with bad ideas.

1475
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,840
You got to get to the bad ideas
to get to the to the good ones.

1476
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:44,800
So I I now feel that so many of
those whores like when I died

1477
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,320
you know I, I they resurrected
me.

1478
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:51,600
I I, I, I, I I I consciously
commit committed suicide Once I

1479
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:56,920
was once run up by a car jumped
off the green building at MIT

1480
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:01,600
and died and then I wasn't dead
you know but those experiences

1481
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,320
are are are terrifying.
Yeah.

1482
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:06,720
That we're we don't have human
words for that kind of terror

1483
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:09,960
where you're you're you're dead
and then you're experiencing

1484
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,360
something else And these beings
that I encountered when I was

1485
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:16,520
alive or suddenly there and and
making covenants and offering

1486
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:18,080
things and then you're live
again.

1487
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:23,040
I mean it's it's it's I'm saying
these as words it's terrifying.

1488
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,800
Behind these words is a
terrifying impossible

1489
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:29,600
experience.
You know and I had a a lifetime

1490
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:32,920
of those and if you had talked
to me when I was 30, I I would

1491
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,080
have absolutely said it was a
curse, that this is nothing good

1492
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:37,440
about it.
This is one reason there was out

1493
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:41,000
there pitching, hey everybody.
I've always tried to talk to

1494
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:45,360
some people but never felt a big
because I I was like who would

1495
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:46,800
want this?
It's scary.

1496
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,360
I just want to be normal.
You know, I I I don't want this.

1497
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:51,880
I I want, I want a normal life.
You know that was how I felt in

1498
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:56,920
my in my 20s.
But then, starting after I ended

1499
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:01,360
up in Russia from that point,
and then I went, I ended up in

1500
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,640
the working with Stephen
Grossberg and GAIL Carpenter.

1501
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:07,560
The extraterrestrials led me to
them, so.

1502
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:11,080
So I asked them.
I said I was in Boston College

1503
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,280
studying psychology.
Long story how I got there.

1504
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:16,520
I'm writing about it in My
Autobiography.

1505
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,120
I don't want to get into it
here, but I was at Boston

1506
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:20,520
College studying psychology
because at that point I didn't

1507
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:22,240
understand how anything works.
So I was doing my best.

1508
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:26,240
I just wanted to understand
intense and consciousness and

1509
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:27,720
autism.
How are these working?

1510
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,760
I don't care how I get these
answers.

1511
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,720
I'm going to get these answers.
I thought for some bad thinking

1512
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,880
that Boston College was the way.
So I was there and it all was

1513
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,000
terrible.
I wasn't learning anything that

1514
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,880
was not the way.
And suddenly I was like, nobody

1515
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,560
on this planet seems to be
understanding consciousness the

1516
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:47,040
right way.
I I had intuition.

1517
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:49,520
Now they've been showing me they
had to give me this mathematical

1518
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:50,760
visions.
I knew it was dynamic.

1519
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:53,840
I knew there was levels.
I knew certain things about

1520
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:56,440
consciousness.
And nobody on earth seemed to be

1521
01:20:56,440 --> 01:20:58,800
thinking that way.
And so, you know, I asked Intex,

1522
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:04,040
please guide me where can I get
these answers and they guided me

1523
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:06,360
to be you.
They told specifically GAIL

1524
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,880
Carpenter is is is who they told
me to go to.

1525
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:12,720
GAIL Carpenter ended up being my
advisor.

1526
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:14,720
I, you know, I studied with
Steve too.

1527
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,840
But GAIL was my advisor and who
I worked with the closest GAIL

1528
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,800
and Steve together came up with
adaptive resonance theory.

1529
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,600
They together as partners,
married partners, figured out

1530
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:27,840
the physical dynamics of
consciousness.

1531
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,680
So she was the right person.
You know, she's not a side

1532
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,200
person.
She and Steve together figured

1533
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:35,040
out the core mystery of
consciousness.

1534
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:36,800
So it should always.
It's not just Grossberg.

1535
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:39,280
It's Grossberg and GAIL
Carpenter for that core mystery.

1536
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:41,040
Absolutely.
Gail's name should always be in

1537
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:43,360
there, too.
So yeah, extraterrestrials

1538
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:45,480
guided me there.
And then from that point on,

1539
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:50,920
once I had, that was the first
time I heard math from humans

1540
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:54,200
that matched the math that the
extraterrestrials were sharing

1541
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:56,760
me.
And then that's then I've been

1542
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,200
rocketing have.
You since then, I mean, I mean

1543
01:22:00,440 --> 01:22:03,520
last time we spoke you were
still fresh out of this this

1544
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,360
almost coming out story to the
public.

1545
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:10,040
How's that been?
So here's what I know.

1546
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:15,000
I now realize I think a lot
about Copernicus and and

1547
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:17,200
heliocentrism.
It's funny.

1548
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:21,840
There's two mysteries that that
I personally have all wanted to

1549
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:25,040
know the answers to and I've
gotten answers to both very

1550
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,480
recently.
One was Hitler's Germany.

1551
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:33,320
How could an advanced civilized
democracy, you know, end up

1552
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:38,040
worshipping this, this evil self
absorbed, destruct figure like

1553
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:43,040
like Germany wasn't a democracy
like us advanced like us, one of

1554
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,520
the most advanced countries on
earth, most democratic, most

1555
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:50,160
sophisticated and and they
collapsed into this, this crazy

1556
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:51,600
dictatorship.
How did that happen?

1557
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,000
Well now with Trump, I see.
You know now anybody that's

1558
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,360
lifted this can understand the
dynamics.

1559
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:58,040
It's very apparent and it's
like, oh, it's not so

1560
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,520
mysterious.
And boy, it's a lot easier than

1561
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:02,320
anybody would expect.
You know, all this time I

1562
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,040
thought there must have been
something special about those

1563
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:04,600
Germans.
Nope.

1564
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,880
Nope.
It's just just human dynamics.

1565
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:09,960
The other great mystery.
I've always wondered what it

1566
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,240
would have been like under
Copernicus when Copernicus said,

1567
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:15,960
guess what?
I think the Earth and the sun,

1568
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,880
not the salt, revolves on Earth.
What was that truly like?

1569
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,920
To live during that time and to
hear that, you know, because

1570
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,480
almost everybody ejected him,
you know, And today, look back,

1571
01:23:25,480 --> 01:23:28,720
We're like, ha ha ha, those
silly people couldn't understand

1572
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:30,200
the truth.
They couldn't handle the truth.

1573
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,120
Well, here's the reality.
They were perfectly capable of

1574
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:36,920
understanding it.
It wasn't like it's so abstract

1575
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:40,400
or or so bizarre that they
couldn't understand it.

1576
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,040
The reason nobody accepted it
wasn't because it didn't make

1577
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:49,760
sense, because so much of their
everyday lives was tied into

1578
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:53,920
this conviction.
Do I go to church or do I walk

1579
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:58,520
down my country lane to church
and listen to my preacher who

1580
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,680
you know for 1000 years has said
the sun goes around the earth

1581
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:04,640
and now I find out that's not
the case.

1582
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,760
Do I fellow congregate?
What do I say to them when my

1583
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:11,320
kids ask me about the dawn?
What is the dawn daddy?

1584
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:14,680
Tell them this new story.
What if all their friends at

1585
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:18,000
school are going to laugh at
them if they say, yeah, the sun

1586
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:20,280
goes, the earth goes around the
sun, not the opposite.

1587
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,760
You know what if all the kids
call, you know, an income poop?

1588
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:25,480
You know, for believing such a
silly idea.

1589
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,320
It's These beliefs are woven
into our supermind, into the

1590
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,320
fabric of our connection with
others.

1591
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:36,200
And now I understand that to
possibly accept what I'm saying,

1592
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:38,120
it's like to accept
heliocentrism or something like

1593
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:40,120
that.
It's not just an idea.

1594
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:45,480
It's seeps into everything.
If there are aliens, well, if

1595
01:24:45,480 --> 01:24:49,280
you believe in all kinds of
things, physics things,

1596
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:51,760
religious things, those will
hold.

1597
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:55,760
Those will have to be adjusted.
And here's the other piece.

1598
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,920
We reject knowledge that doesn't
fit our super mind, our group,

1599
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:01,720
you know?
So if you're a physicist, you

1600
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:05,120
want an answer that that fits
physics.

1601
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:09,400
If you're an artist, a writer,
you want a literary explanation,

1602
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,160
You want an artistic, creative,
you know, that celebrates the

1603
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:14,480
humanistic soul.
Perhaps if you're religious, you

1604
01:25:14,480 --> 01:25:16,600
know, you want a biblical, You
want an explanation that's

1605
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:20,160
conigned with the Bible, and if
it doesn't fit that you just

1606
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,560
don't want to hear it.
I understand that.

1607
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:24,920
I respect that we all are trying
to make sense of the world.

1608
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:28,680
We all have to make sense of it
through through others, through

1609
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:29,720
our groups, through our
communities.

1610
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:31,880
We all have to live in our
communities.

1611
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,840
I understand it.
So, So I realized, like what I'm

1612
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,720
saying, it's not like a small
thing.

1613
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:39,560
It's not a simple thing.
It's not just a matter of

1614
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,080
changing one belief.
It's stitched into the entire

1615
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:47,160
fabric of our lives, what we all
want.

1616
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:50,920
I think all of us want a
spiritual epiphany.

1617
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:53,520
We all want a moment of
transcendence.

1618
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,920
We all want that grand
connection to the cosmos.

1619
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:00,640
We just want to come it to
happen on the terms we're

1620
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:04,240
already ready for.
We want it to be Jesus guiding

1621
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,320
us.
If we're Christian, we want it

1622
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,640
to be a grand unification theory
that combines quantum physics

1623
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:12,080
and gravity.
If we're a physicist, you know,

1624
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:13,800
that's what that's what we're
prepared for.

1625
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:15,120
That's what we're expecting to
see.

1626
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:17,560
What?
Wait, You're telling me that

1627
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,320
physics is just environmental
science?

1628
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,920
That really mind plays an
equally or perhaps more

1629
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,080
important role than the physics
we've been studying?

1630
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,840
That's too much.
What does that say about my

1631
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:30,120
life, my beliefs, my
convictions?

1632
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:35,440
If you're an artist, you know
artists want great art that

1633
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:39,400
uplifts their soul.
You know, Aliens isn't exactly

1634
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:40,760
that.
And maybe there's alien art

1635
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,800
they'll appreciate.
It's we want those epiphanies,

1636
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:49,520
that spiritual revelations to
fit what we're already expecting

1637
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:52,160
we don't want.
You know, if you're a physicist,

1638
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,480
you don't want Jesus showing up
and talking to you.

1639
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,480
If you're a Christian, you don't
care that there's a grand

1640
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,120
vacation theory that's not going
to do anything from you.

1641
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:05,720
And so here I'm talking about,
you know, a completely different

1642
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:11,600
view of reality that's different
from physics, art, you know, and

1643
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:13,400
religion, You know, it doesn't
match any of those things.

1644
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:15,680
And and who wants to do the work
of that?

1645
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:18,280
Just it's the same problem,
honestly.

1646
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:22,720
Steve Grossberg.
Steve Grossberg's math at this

1647
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:25,360
point is so monumental, so
complicated.

1648
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:27,840
You know, his book Conscious
Mind, Resonant Brain.

1649
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,560
I've had so many people tell me
they started it and just

1650
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,040
couldn't get 10 pages in.
It's too turgid.

1651
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:34,600
It's too impossible.
I get it.

1652
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:40,080
The burden, the burden of
learning that it's so huge and

1653
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:44,080
you're like, you know what, I'm
just going to go study the

1654
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:45,800
effect of the thyroid gland, you
know?

1655
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:47,880
Instead, I'm going to, I'm just
going to study what serotonin

1656
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:50,920
does to these neurons already.
I don't need this massive,

1657
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:53,960
mathematical, elaborate
apparatus that I'm going to

1658
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:55,680
spend 10 years understanding.
And then what?

1659
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,840
For the rest of my life?
I'm going to have to pub the

1660
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,040
papers that cite Steve instead
of like it being my own stuff

1661
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:02,040
once.
Who wants that?

1662
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,560
We all want to be the master of
our own fate.

1663
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:06,040
I get it.
I get it.

1664
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,880
So that's that's what I'm
experiencing. 17 Paper Have you

1665
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:11,520
seen Steve's 2017 paper on the
hard problem of consciousness?

1666
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:16,440
Yes, I mean that's the
cornerstone I think, yeah, it's,

1667
01:28:16,440 --> 01:28:18,080
it's, it's.
Not in the thing.

1668
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,080
I mean, that paper is quite in
depth.

1669
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,680
Yes, it's.
It's and he fills it with so

1670
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,400
many Nuggets of information.
It's it's amazing how much

1671
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,080
information he's able to
condense.

1672
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:32,480
It's still, it's so much and yet
it's so little from his

1673
01:28:32,480 --> 01:28:34,120
perspective.
I mean, this is him trying to,

1674
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:38,360
like, give you the tip of the
iceberg of the story, which.

1675
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:42,520
This gets back.
This gets back to the notion of

1676
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:45,360
the hard problem.
Yes, it's hard.

1677
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,640
It was hard.
It just wasn't impossible or

1678
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,200
mystical.
Einstein's theory of relativity,

1679
01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:53,840
if you ever looked at it, most
people haven't because it's a

1680
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,840
hairy mess, you know, it's the
the, the equations.

1681
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:00,600
You need to learn a lot of math.
It's not even college level

1682
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:01,680
math.
You got to get to grad school

1683
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,600
level math to do it, just like
Steve.

1684
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:07,640
It's a burden, you know.
That's why the gravity is a hard

1685
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:08,880
problem.
We're just more willing to

1686
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,400
accept, yeah, we expect gravity
to have a lot of equations

1687
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:14,080
because we, none of us are
expecting that to give us

1688
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:16,520
gravity, to give us a spiritual
revelation.

1689
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:19,520
Maybe physicists aren't, but
most of them don't care that

1690
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,840
that's complicated.
But consciousness or soul we

1691
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:26,440
care about and what to
understand My own soul, I got to

1692
01:29:26,440 --> 01:29:28,920
read a 500 page book filled with
equations.

1693
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:31,360
Screw that, you know.
I'm just going to keep on

1694
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:35,040
believing what I believe.
And and it's amazing because he

1695
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:38,720
you he tries his best.
He put so many image images and

1696
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:41,640
different ways for people to
understand it and and yet it's

1697
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:43,800
still it's going to be one of
those things where if you if

1698
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,320
it's either you get it or you
don't it's it's you have to

1699
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:48,360
literally go sift through all
that information.

1700
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:51,600
Are there any aspects of his
work in terms of explaining

1701
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:55,720
consciousness and reality that
you think he he doesn't really

1702
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:59,280
do justice in explaining because
of his level of intellect and

1703
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:01,080
the way he struggles to express
it?

1704
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:04,440
To the layman that you would
like to clarify, But I I mean, I

1705
01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:06,640
don't want you to speak on his
behalf, but anything you think

1706
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:09,360
is important and worth cheering.
Sure.

1707
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:14,640
So he first, in a way, we're all
blessed and we should all be

1708
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:18,920
grateful that he'd never got
famous because he's spent his

1709
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:22,400
entire life every minute.
I I work with him.

1710
01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:27,160
I've been to his house and both
of his houses many, many times.

1711
01:30:27,480 --> 01:30:30,880
I've seen him up close.
This is a man who has spent

1712
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:34,640
every minute of every day trying
to figure out how the mind works

1713
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:37,680
since he was 17 years old.
That is all that he does.

1714
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:41,240
He has immersed himself in the
mathematical world and we're all

1715
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:44,160
great.
For if at age 40 he had become

1716
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:47,280
famous like Einstein, he
probably would have slowed down.

1717
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:50,840
He might have been corrupted.
Plenty of scientists got

1718
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,240
corrupted by that stuff, like
Watson or Crick.

1719
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:55,160
When I always get the two of the
mixed up, one of them got

1720
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,200
corrupted by his early success
and just Crick just became a

1721
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:01,600
jerk in his later life and
didn't do much more in the way

1722
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:04,320
of scientific discovery.
That could have been Steve,

1723
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:08,160
thank gosh, nobody ever.
Even the praise that he deserved

1724
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:10,520
because here is in his 80s and
he hasn't stopped.

1725
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:11,920
He's still going at it full
speed.

1726
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:15,720
He's amazing, a great, a great
hero of mine.

1727
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:18,280
And he says I'm sorry, your
question.

1728
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:21,600
He's got no family history of
dementia, so he's going to keep

1729
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:24,440
going till till his asthma
probably takes about.

1730
01:31:24,440 --> 01:31:26,800
It's what he said.
Yes.

1731
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:31,800
So you asked maybe a limitation.
I I I don't think.

1732
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:36,080
I don't think he really cared
about the hard problem and I

1733
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:38,440
don't think he he he gets gets
it but he should.

1734
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:40,960
I mean hard problems.
He doesn't need to get it.

1735
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,840
I don't he shouldn't waste time
on the hard problem.

1736
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,840
I people that think demand an
explanation of the hard problem.

1737
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:49,080
I mean OK demand an explanation
of gravity.

1738
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:51,920
The answer is relativity.
If relativity doesn't satisfy

1739
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,280
you, we're going to keep on
studying, you know, wormholes

1740
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:57,520
and black holes and white holes
and and all the rest.

1741
01:31:57,720 --> 01:31:59,200
We actually had the same with
Steve, OK.

1742
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:01,880
We had a great two hour
conversation on just the hard

1743
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:03,600
problem.
I think now in his later years,

1744
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:06,480
he's realizing the implications
his work has on.

1745
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:08,960
Perhaps, perhaps.
And I think he is.

1746
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:11,200
The the last time I talked to
him about it was it was about

1747
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:14,400
four years ago and he and at
that time he didn't he's very

1748
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:15,360
much.
It wasn't something.

1749
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:19,120
I can tell it's something that
he he knows, because that's the

1750
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:21,600
one aspect of his work that
probably gets the most

1751
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,560
criticism, particularly from
philosophers.

1752
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:27,520
And I think he knows it's about
time he addresses these these

1753
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,600
problems, which is exciting.
It's fun to watch.

1754
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:31,360
Yes, yes.
I mean, hey, look, he's taken

1755
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:33,840
up.
He'll have a lot to say.

1756
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:37,160
I mean, I'd love to hear what he
has to to say about that because

1757
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,160
he's he's mostly been neutral
through most of his career.

1758
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:44,040
And last time I talked to him he
hadn't spent time really

1759
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,400
studying it.
Like I don't think he at the

1760
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:48,360
time really got it.
But that was just a lack of

1761
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:52,320
interest, not a lack of ability,
of course.

1762
01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:54,160
What?
Do you think Steve and L would

1763
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,120
would think about this idea of
speaking to Index?

1764
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:58,440
Have you?
I haven't, I haven't mentioned

1765
01:32:58,440 --> 01:33:00,040
it to him.
I'm I'm wondering if have you

1766
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,000
ever thought of bringing it up
or or you just stump?

1767
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:07,280
It I I have no idea.
I imagine if I was alone in the

1768
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:10,920
room with Steve, I I would be
able to make him understand it.

1769
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:15,760
I I mean I I would be able to
explain it in in the terms that

1770
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:17,880
he's set up for himself.
I mean I think he'd understand

1771
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,600
this latter purpose and and the
Super, the Super mind.

1772
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:23,320
I mean he'd get all of this.
And I think when I explained,

1773
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:26,080
you know, I think the index are
communicating with me.

1774
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:27,520
I think they're using resonant
technology.

1775
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:30,400
I think they're using they're
creating resonances in my mind.

1776
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,480
You know I have these higher
dimensions when when they're

1777
01:33:33,480 --> 01:33:36,720
sharing the math with me, I
enter this higher dimensional

1778
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:38,560
state of awareness.
And I I think what they're doing

1779
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:43,200
is they're just adding
resonances on to to my my

1780
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:45,720
consciousness cartel.
That's really what it what it

1781
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:47,680
seems like and feels like to me
also.

1782
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,720
I mean this is a physical
practical mechanism that could

1783
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,200
be duplicated.
We could recreate this

1784
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:56,680
hypothetical and technology.
It's not hand WAVY, you know

1785
01:33:56,680 --> 01:34:00,040
it's it's just a matter of
creating resonances that

1786
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,560
resonate with our distinct
consciousness and our cartel

1787
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:05,200
which is you know that's how our
brains formed.

1788
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:07,760
You know when we were young you
know that we didn't come with

1789
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:11,720
this consciousness cartel fully
made it had learned OK all the

1790
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:13,360
modules had to learn to
communicate with each other and

1791
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:14,840
get synchronized and and all of
that.

1792
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:20,560
But yeah, I I I imagine if I was
able to sit down with Steve you

1793
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:22,880
know he'd be able to understand
what it was about.

1794
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:25,240
Maybe he's even had these
experiences.

1795
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:26,240
I don't.
I mean you know I don't even

1796
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:29,840
know if there's an Earth that
could possibly have gone there.

1797
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:31,160
I'd.
Love to be a family on the wall

1798
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:34,840
and listening to that
conversation, it's not like

1799
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,160
something, but that's what any
to anything.

1800
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:41,200
So, OK, in terms of this whole
understanding of consciousness,

1801
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:45,440
the heart problem, the mind body
problem, overall, just these

1802
01:34:45,440 --> 01:34:49,720
biological systems that manifest
the psychological system, they

1803
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,080
seem to be directly linked.
There's there's no sort of

1804
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:56,760
dualism between this, anything
that you think you need to

1805
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:59,920
clarify and rectify in terms of
our understanding and the

1806
01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:03,680
listeners and viewers.
I always say this, but I'll say

1807
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:06,440
it again.
Just the number one fallacy, the

1808
01:35:06,440 --> 01:35:09,960
number one hindrance to
understanding consciousness in

1809
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:15,360
the mind is mistaken Activities
for things.

1810
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,800
Is going looking for magical
things when you should be going

1811
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:22,320
to look for magical activities.
The example I just gave a pan

1812
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:23,960
psychism.
I admit I haven't looked deeply

1813
01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:27,640
so so I'm this is not a
definitive position but it sure

1814
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:30,680
sounds like classic case of
thinking.

1815
01:35:30,680 --> 01:35:34,520
There's a thing when it's really
an activity, and it's 'cause our

1816
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:36,240
brains are designed to operate
this way.

1817
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:38,880
We carve up reality at the
joints.

1818
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:43,360
We we, we digitize the world.
But if you want to understand

1819
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:45,640
the mind and consciousness,
you've got to break digital.

1820
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:48,400
You could go with the flow.
Literally.

1821
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:51,760
The brain is about flow.
Consciousness is about flow.

1822
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,400
America has more flow than
Russia.

1823
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:57,920
You got to think about thinking
in terms of flow.

1824
01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:01,880
If you can make that 1 jump,
you're 80% of the way there and

1825
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:05,880
you're going to avoid so many of
the landmines and potholes that

1826
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,840
are strewn across fine science
landscape.

1827
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:12,880
That's what I'd say.
Just just doing, going with the

1828
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:16,080
flow, thinking and activity, the
minds of basketball game, not a

1829
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,800
computer.
Doing that, you're already, you

1830
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:21,600
know, ahead of most of other
scientists and.

1831
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:26,160
What would your message be to
any sort of autistic autism

1832
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:29,240
researchers and their approach
to how they should study this

1833
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:34,480
phenomenon?
Stop looking at genetics.

1834
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:38,520
Looking for that autism gene is
just looking for a magical

1835
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:40,440
thing.
We've been at it for, I don't

1836
01:36:40,440 --> 01:36:44,160
know, 40 years, and I know some
people have found some

1837
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:46,520
correlations.
Nobody's found an autistic gene.

1838
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:48,000
It's not going to be an autistic
gene.

1839
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:50,440
It's a mechanism.
It's an activity.

1840
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:53,400
If you want to understand
autism, you've got to understand

1841
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:56,960
the dynamics of consciousness.
The holistic dynamics of the

1842
01:36:56,960 --> 01:37:01,680
whole mind is the only route to
understanding autism and most of

1843
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:03,560
the other mental disorders as
well.

1844
01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:09,120
And and the the last time you
mentioned when when one has this

1845
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,240
information that you've
received, what are their names

1846
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:13,360
again, you said it was 5, I
can't remember it.

1847
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:16,240
Five and three is how they style
themselves, yeah.

1848
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:18,720
When, when?
When they provided you with this

1849
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:21,960
information, it seemed to also
enlighten the greater picture

1850
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,800
beyond all of this.
So you want to tie tie this off

1851
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:28,360
with explaining your view of the
universe as a whole, the sort of

1852
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:30,880
experience we call reality.
What is it?

1853
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:32,880
Why is it?
Where is it?

1854
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:34,760
What's the point of?
It sure.

1855
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:42,040
So here's the most beautiful
extraordinary, extraordinary.

1856
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:44,880
It's not even a strong enough
word for for this.

1857
01:37:45,480 --> 01:37:52,080
The universe that we all inhabit
was designed for love to emerge

1858
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:56,400
endlessly, eternally.
It's a never bringing story of

1859
01:37:56,400 --> 01:38:03,360
the emergence of ever new forms
of love and this is built into

1860
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:06,240
the fabric of reality.
This is just how it works.

1861
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:09,280
It's part of this cosmic cycle,
the ladder of purpose which I

1862
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:13,680
always talking about.
That at the bottom is physics,

1863
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:16,640
quantum physics, the dynamics of
aimlessness.

1864
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:20,040
Then out of this aimlessness
arose the first minds, the

1865
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,560
molecule minds and then we keep
climbing the ladder.

1866
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:27,480
Recursive hierarchy.
Neuron minds, Module minds,

1867
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:32,960
super minds hyper on up.
So the axiomized minds and then

1868
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:36,920
the axiomized minds commit to
their mathematical axioms so

1869
01:38:36,920 --> 01:38:39,400
they can start influencing the
parameters of reality.

1870
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:42,240
But they're in competition, you
know the universe is designed so

1871
01:38:42,240 --> 01:38:45,200
no one God can take over its
many gods.

1872
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:49,400
Many super duper advanced minds
competing for these control of

1873
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:52,520
reality.
Which is why it's not constantly

1874
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:54,600
changing and it's why it's not
monolithic.

1875
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:59,000
But within this cosmic cycle,
each of these transitions, each

1876
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:02,720
of these rungs going from
molecule minds to neural minds,

1877
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:08,640
going from module minds to each
time you need love, the

1878
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:13,040
individual minds on one level,
have to be willing to sacrifice

1879
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:16,720
themselves, sacrifice their
individuality, sacrifice some of

1880
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:20,600
their independence to join
collective thinking, the

1881
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:23,920
benefits of being part of the
collective, you have to love,

1882
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:27,240
you have to love your fellow
minds.

1883
01:39:27,680 --> 01:39:30,800
That's what happened.
Individual single cell creatures

1884
01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:35,240
like protozoa had to connect as
neurons, you know, They had to

1885
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:36,960
be willing to give up their
individuality and their

1886
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:38,400
independence to form neural
networks.

1887
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:42,520
We as humans, even now, to form
super minds, we have to

1888
01:39:42,520 --> 01:39:45,040
cooperate.
We have to care about other

1889
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:46,680
people.
We're the only creatures on

1890
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:50,640
Earth.
Well, there's Anson bees, and

1891
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:54,240
some of you social insects and
naked romance, naked bull rats.

1892
01:39:54,440 --> 01:39:56,000
But I thought of those very
special cases.

1893
01:39:56,120 --> 01:39:58,880
We're the most cooperative,
altruistic creature on earth.

1894
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:02,520
We're the only ones that will
help strangers of our own

1895
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:05,000
species that we've never
encountered before, that will

1896
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:09,680
give us no benefit whatsoever.
This is the self sacrifice

1897
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,440
that's necessary.
And what's so beautiful about

1898
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:14,040
this?
In addition to the just the mere

1899
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:17,160
fact that the universe is
designed for love, which is

1900
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:21,320
incredible, is the fact that.
It limits evil.

1901
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:25,480
How does it limit evil?
You can only rise to new levels

1902
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:29,400
of purpose and intelligence and
adapt and resilience through

1903
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:31,560
love.
If you're not willing to

1904
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:36,200
sacrifice yourself and join
collectively with others to

1905
01:40:36,200 --> 01:40:39,320
support a community over
yourself, then you won't get to

1906
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:42,160
that new level of purpose.
You know, the only way we're

1907
01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:45,200
going to form Hyper Minds is if
all the sewer minds on Earth get

1908
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:49,040
along, if we all treat each
other with respect as equals.

1909
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,480
The reason our brains are so
powerful is because we empower

1910
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:55,000
every neuron in our brain to
have a voice.

1911
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:57,880
We empower every module in our
brain to have a voice.

1912
01:40:57,880 --> 01:41:00,960
It's decentralized.
There's no Putin neuron, There's

1913
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:05,480
no Hitler module in our brain.
You know, they all have equal.

1914
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:08,040
That's how you the greatest
intelligence.

1915
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:12,200
This is why America has been the
most powerful and influential,

1916
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:17,760
not powerful, influential mind
on Earth is because we do a

1917
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:20,320
better job of almost any other
country of giving everybody a

1918
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:22,520
voice, and it's becoming more
so.

1919
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:25,320
The Internet's social media is
empowering everyone.

1920
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:28,120
It's just that everyone thinks
differently.

1921
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:30,720
So like, for the first time,
we're truly seeing how everybody

1922
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:32,000
else thinks.
And guess what?

1923
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,600
Tons of people don't think like
you, you know, like.

1924
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,200
And we're all shocked by this
and we're all upset by us.

1925
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:40,920
That's our tribalism, you know?
That's our own supermind.

1926
01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:44,320
Wait, who are these mega folks?
Who are these woke folks?

1927
01:41:44,520 --> 01:41:48,360
You know, I don't see them in my
town who are, how are they

1928
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:50,840
controlling the government?
It's upsetting, but this is how

1929
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:52,840
it works.
This is the same mechanism as

1930
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:54,720
our in our brain.
You don't want everybody

1931
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:57,320
thinking alike.
You don't want everybody forced

1932
01:41:57,320 --> 01:42:00,080
to feel like, yeah, go live in
Russia if you want, if you want

1933
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:03,080
that.
Well, I mean, OK, we started

1934
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:04,800
nice and early.
So I've, I've run through all my

1935
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:06,400
questions.
Are there any topics in

1936
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:10,480
particular that you feel, I mean
really inspire you at this point

1937
01:42:10,480 --> 01:42:13,600
and you love talking about it in
terms of having these podcasts

1938
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:16,240
and conversations what what's
really on your mind at the

1939
01:42:16,240 --> 01:42:17,760
moment?
What's really getting you going

1940
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:21,200
every day?
Thank you for asking that.

1941
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:25,080
But to be honest, right now the
autism is the thing that I'm

1942
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:30,480
most excited about.
I I it's clearer than ever about

1943
01:42:30,480 --> 01:42:32,920
these mechanisms of autism.
And I'm elaborating.

1944
01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:35,760
That's that's the thing I'm
focusing on the most right now.

1945
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:38,320
I mean, the way I always viewed
it is I wanted to understand

1946
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:41,040
autism in my own brain.
I initially bought into the

1947
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:42,560
notion that maybe it is a
spectrum.

1948
01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:47,160
And so my initial position was
I'll understand my own autism

1949
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:49,920
and maybe there'll be some other
people like me maybe to help

1950
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:51,560
some people.
But you know I didn't think that

1951
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:55,360
it would explain all of it and
perhaps doesn't.

1952
01:42:55,640 --> 01:43:00,440
But I'm convinced that this is
the core mechanism this this

1953
01:43:00,440 --> 01:43:03,840
this inability to paint others
in the Y module which caused the

1954
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:07,440
the our consciousness of the
cartel to focus on any old thing

1955
01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:10,920
whatever our our our brain.
You know I'm I'm more interested

1956
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:12,640
in thinking about the mind and
abstract stuff.

1957
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:16,320
So that's where my my mind goes.
You know another person might

1958
01:43:16,440 --> 01:43:19,480
like sports that just might be
how their their autistic brain

1959
01:43:19,480 --> 01:43:22,080
just their lights up and so they
go sports it could be anything

1960
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:26,400
but not other people you know so
so really working out these

1961
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:31,160
mechanisms and pools overcoming
it is what I'm doing now that's

1962
01:43:31,160 --> 01:43:34,400
my main focus actually is I I
I've figured out some tools that

1963
01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:36,640
are very powerful and effective
for me and and so I want to I

1964
01:43:36,640 --> 01:43:38,440
want to share them with others.
Yeah, I was just going to say

1965
01:43:38,440 --> 01:43:40,520
that.
I mean, the theory obviously has

1966
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:42,920
this explanatory power and
predictive power which is

1967
01:43:43,480 --> 01:43:45,520
fundamental to what you want in
a theory.

1968
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,640
You wanted to to explain
phenomenon.

1969
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:51,040
You wanted to actually enlighten
you on topics that go beyond the

1970
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:53,640
actual theory itself not merely
being false.

1971
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:57,640
It's not all it's right.
Yeah, So what with that being.

1972
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:01,320
Said I I want people to live a
better life, a concrete life.

1973
01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:07,320
I live a joyful, connected life
now because I figured out how

1974
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:09,640
the autism works, how the
consciousness works and what to

1975
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:11,640
do about it.
Because once you understand it,

1976
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:14,520
once you have that clarity, you
can take smart choices.

1977
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:18,080
So I see now so many autistic
people are following these

1978
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:21,760
myths, these wrong ideas.
And there's, you know, if I do

1979
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:25,040
this, then this, but it's
disconnected from the underlying

1980
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:27,680
neural and physical reality in
their brain.

1981
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:30,320
And and they're not necessarily
going to make much progress

1982
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:32,840
pursuing some of these ideas.
And that saddens me.

1983
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:34,280
And.
And having a better

1984
01:44:34,280 --> 01:44:35,720
understanding of of
consciousness.

1985
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:37,320
Yeah.
Consciousness, it's not just an

1986
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:40,600
abstract thing.
It leads to concrete results.

1987
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:42,800
That's it's so important.
You can understand pain,

1988
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:45,240
anaesthesia.
These are concrete, physical,

1989
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:48,480
medical mysteries that can be
illuminated by this.

1990
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:52,720
Just like if relativity was
real, it should make predictions

1991
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:55,400
and it does black holes.
We have GPS technology.

1992
01:44:55,600 --> 01:44:59,120
GPS is based on the equations of
relativity.

1993
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:04,320
This abstract notion has a very
physical, practical use in in

1994
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:06,520
our our time, and I think it's
going to be the same for these

1995
01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:08,240
mental disorders.
Once we get this better

1996
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:12,040
understanding of causing this,
we can start helping therapies

1997
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:15,120
that are based on an extra
knowledge, not based on this

1998
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:17,200
notion of a spectrum.
As long as you're operating in

1999
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:21,200
this spectrum that autism has
many faces, many forms, well

2000
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:23,480
then you're going to think that
any old thing might work for any

2001
01:45:23,480 --> 01:45:24,960
old person, maybe that person
not the same.

2002
01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:28,760
But if we all have the same
underlying mechanism, then we

2003
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:33,000
can all, you know, we can have a
centralized therapy, you know, a

2004
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:35,200
primary therapy and then you
know there's going to always be

2005
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:37,120
variations and others.
Everybody's got different things

2006
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:39,080
going on.
It's not going to be monolithic,

2007
01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:42,760
but we know we start out with
looking at this thing first, not

2008
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:44,280
imagining it could be any old
thing.

2009
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:47,880
What?
How do you think the psychiatry

2010
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:51,000
fraternity are going to look at
this view or perception of?

2011
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:55,800
That's a whole other
conversation.

2012
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:58,000
Maybe next time you can have me
on, you can we can talk

2013
01:45:58,000 --> 01:45:58,800
psychiatry.
I did.

2014
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:04,000
AI did a book on psychiatry with
the the president of American

2015
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:06,200
Psychiatric Association.
It's Jeff Lieberman.

2016
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:09,880
He was at the time in charge of
the roll out of the DSM 5 the

2017
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:13,520
the, the Bible of psychiatry.
So you know we go behind the

2018
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:16,800
scenes talk to see exactly how
it was put together.

2019
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,600
You know we got to talk to all
the leading psychiatrists and

2020
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:25,240
got real deep in the history of
how the the DSM was made and and

2021
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:27,080
the story there that's that's
that.

2022
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:29,360
I think most people don't know
that.

2023
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:32,400
I mean it's it's sad.
It's a tragedy more than

2024
01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:36,160
anything but one should not give
too much credence to the DSM.

2025
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:40,200
It's anchored in its history, in
its non scientific history.

2026
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:44,880
It's it's trying to break out.
They make progress but they have

2027
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:49,000
not broken free of this legacy
of of pseudoscience and

2028
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:51,960
scientific thinking.
And and the problem is now to be

2029
01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:56,080
honest, the problem there's too
many, the DSN.

2030
01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:57,920
Psychiatry is too connected to
many things.

2031
01:46:57,920 --> 01:46:59,000
It's rigid.
It can't move.

2032
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:02,560
It's like the Queen of England,
like in one sense the queen has

2033
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:05,000
the most power and freedom, but
another she can't do anything

2034
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:07,640
she has to do.
Exactly what everybody expects

2035
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:13,200
you to do.
The insurance system needs DSM

2036
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:15,480
to be a certain way.
Our school system.

2037
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:19,240
How do we decide what to do with
this kid who has the diagnosis?

2038
01:47:19,480 --> 01:47:21,080
Kick him out?
Help him?

2039
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:22,760
Give him therapy?
Autism.

2040
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:24,280
Do we give them a special
treatment?

2041
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:27,960
What do we do tied to the DSM?
The DSM needs to be fixed and

2042
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,160
stable for our educational
system.

2043
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:32,920
Pharmaceutical companies, you
know, they need to know what the

2044
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:34,360
disease is.
They can say here's the

2045
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:38,320
prescribed drug for this if it's
Willy nilly, they they can't

2046
01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:41,600
operate too so many giant super
minds, so many giant

2047
01:47:41,600 --> 01:47:43,160
institutions are so tied into
it.

2048
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:46,120
Not in a malevolent way.
It's it's not it's not a

2049
01:47:46,120 --> 01:47:49,840
hostile, it's just how it is now
if you change autism in a

2050
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:53,920
radical way, it's going to
disrupt so many things in

2051
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:57,520
society, across society, massive
things, trillion dollar things

2052
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,160
that we're talking about.
You know, hundreds of millions

2053
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:02,200
of people involved in in this
sort of stuff.

2054
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:06,840
You can't do it lightly.
So they're they're locked into

2055
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:10,320
basically the DSM 3R.
You know they're never get very

2056
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:14,000
far from from Bob Spitzer's
notion of mental illness that he

2057
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:17,160
came up with you know with a DSM
3.

2058
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:21,520
So yeah, don't look to the DSM
and psychiatry for for

2059
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:24,560
innovation and and and and big
bold moves forward.

2060
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:27,400
It just can't happen
institutionally and and that's a

2061
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:30,120
tragedy.
But yeah, we can work around it.

2062
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:34,440
Well, I mean that that obviously
then leaves us with a lot to

2063
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:36,600
discuss in the future as well,
Eddie.

2064
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:38,560
Yes, I hope so.
It's such a pleasure, OK?

2065
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:39,880
It's always great to chat to
you.

2066
01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:44,000
I mean, it's always a fun time.
Kevin, thank you so much.

2067
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:45,560
I know my monologue.
I'm so sorry.

2068
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:49,640
This is, this is the stuff I'm
so passionate about.

2069
01:48:49,680 --> 01:48:51,800
I'm.
I love talking about it and I

2070
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:53,600
just can't control myself.
I'm going to try harder next

2071
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:55,200
time.
I promised myself I was going to

2072
01:48:55,200 --> 01:48:57,160
be slower.
I absolutely failed.

2073
01:48:58,440 --> 01:49:00,640
Well, the the goal of this
podcast isn't really for me to

2074
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:03,240
to talk.
So I I think the the guests come

2075
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:05,520
here to watch you guys.
So it's always great for me to

2076
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:08,480
listen, enjoy it all the time.
So thank you again.

2077
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:10,600
I love your format and I love
being here, and thank you so

2078
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:12,520
much for having me on, Kevin.
Your show's great.

2079
01:49:12,720 --> 01:49:14,720
Anytime, Augie.
And yeah, I look forward to

2080
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:16,640
around 3:00.
I mean, next time I think we'll

2081
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:19,200
touch on on various different
aspects, maybe we can cover

2082
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:22,000
different mental illness, how
this explanatory power

2083
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:25,960
translates into those And yeah,
we can move from topic to topic.

2084
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:27,120
Yeah, let's talk about
psychiatry.

2085
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:28,640
I know you're a doctor to
yourself.

2086
01:49:28,640 --> 01:49:32,280
So you know, imagine you'd have
some insight and and and some

2087
01:49:32,280 --> 01:49:34,040
relevancy to you too.
So yeah, let's, let's, let's

2088
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:35,160
plan.
Let's plan for it.

2089
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:36,640
That's that's pretty much the
main.

2090
01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:39,400
I mean, the goal of this podcast
is more philosophically driven,

2091
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:41,840
but there's always some sort of
a practical significance to

2092
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:44,360
everything, and I think
exploring those always adds a

2093
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:46,600
benefit to.
This exploring that what is

2094
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:48,480
mental illness?
I mean, that's a deep and

2095
01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:52,000
profound philosophical question
that that I'd love to explore.

2096
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:53,960
I mean very relevant.
I mean to me.

2097
01:49:53,960 --> 01:49:55,960
I mean, I wrestle with it all
the time.

2098
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,200
I am I mentally or not mentally?
How should I think about this?

2099
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:02,040
Autism?
Am I, am I human, You know or

2100
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:04,320
not?
So yeah, definitely plenty of

2101
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:07,040
philosophical questions to
explore in an examination of

2102
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:08,720
psychiatry.
I'm.

2103
01:50:08,760 --> 01:50:09,800
I'm looking forward to it,
Dougie.

2104
01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:12,440
Thank you again and cheers and
take care.

2105
01:50:12,440 --> 01:50:13,400
Look forward to round three.